J. Phil Thien's Projects

you are me? lol

Okay - here's what I got and done and from here I need some thoughts.

I have a Penn State DC, 2hp model 2000B I think its called. Bags are the 1 micron it shipped with. Love this DC - best one I've owned to date by a mile.

I ran pvc duct -- only 4" I hate to admit, for maybe 16' total. 3 drops, and short lengths of 4" hose off to tool. I'm mainly mobile with all tools on bases, share the shop (garage) space wih a car so I do shift around the RT, jointer, SCMS when I use to a hose are. I know suction is restricted due to the 4" but so far it still works great. Someday when the $$ shows up I'll swap out to 6".

Okay - my questions:

I want to incorporate Phil's:     A) pre-seperator before the DC
                                          B) add the internal baffle

Which one would you go to minimize loss of suction? I have a 12" fan on the thing but assume it's still choked due to the 4" lines so maybe the pre-seperator not the ticket? If I use the baffle do I need to add over-sized bag or go to a filter to use a trash can underneath instaed of bag #2?

I am mighty open to any ideas. Thanks.

Rockhead
(I'm a landscaper! LOL)

Seems like a lot of guys asking the same question in similar ways.  A baffle IN the DC will have the least, if any, negative effect on suction. A pre-separator WILL have some effect, since the air has to go in, swirl around, and take a turn up the outlet. But it will prevent more fines from getting to the bag. You have 1 micron bags, so your filtration is pretty darn good now...  So pick your battles....

Can I restate a bit .... how big a hit would one think I'd take using a pre-seperater? Talking maybe 20% drop off or such?
I can live with that - more I'm thinking it needs to be inside.

Or maybe I can consider flipping it by making a mount similar to the Delta's and have the seperater underneath?
This is getting me mighty confused to be honest :-\

RockHead,

FWIW, I had that same choice to make. While I am not familiar with the PSI DC, (Mine's the cheapo HF 2HP 20 amp model), I had two concerns with the pre separator.

#1. Air Flow restriction. Anything in the path of the air is going to produce a restriction. From what I have seen and read, pre separators produce in the area of what you guessed, around 20% CFM loss, which with 4" duct is really a concern for me. I want to maximize what I CAN pull from 4" before I have to upsize to 6".

#2. Like you, my shop is in a garage, that I am desperately trying to get my lovely bride's car into... (My pickup will never fit, it's too tall, and long...), so floor space is at a premium.

An internal baffle instead of a pre separator is my solution. I just need to get around to installing it now. A couple of advantages to this...

#1. The baffle in the inlet ring provides far less physical obstruction to the air path. No elbow for the air flow to swirl around and smash into.

#2. Fewer fittings, meaning fewer potential places for the system to have air leaks.

#3. Fewer bends so there is less loss in CFM...

The main disadvantage is that the lower bag would have to be emptied more frequently. IMHO, this is something that is pretty easy to live with...

DB - thanks for the feedback. I'm leaning that way more and more I guess. What I would love to do is scrap out that bottom bag and have a trash can instead to simplify the process but from what I have read it means I must add a larger top bag. I've cheched on this a couple of places and the cost gets upwards of $150. Mighty painfull at the moment to keep adding to the want list.

That "cheapo" HF you have was one I had and I loved that critter after I upgraded the original bags (30 micron back then) to some felt ones from Rockler. I bet they ship today with better ones than they had on mine.
It just hummed along day after day. I replaced it with a Delta and wish that never was done - the Delta died after warranty ended of course and the HF still works fine across the street where the new owner lives. One of the dumbest moves I coulda made. I liked the green color better too.  :D

The PSI that is here now has a bonafide 12" impeller and it has loads of suction. I really love it but hate dumping the bag(s) - been doing the unthinkable and using a lot of that miserable MDF lately and what a PITA to slap it out of the bags. Even with a seperater/baffle I'll likley have some in the top bag but either way it will be less I hope.

U close to adding one?

I've got the baffle cut out, and the standoffs, but been REAL lazy about installing it...

My model differs a little bit from the old 30 micron one. Mine comes with a 5 micron bag, and a poly lower bag. The motor has been replaced with a closer to a real "2HP" 20 amp max motor.

I have already added a Wynn Cartridge filter, and a stovepipe mod to improve air flow and filtration. Once the Thien baffle is installed and photos taken I will post them here, and a few of my other fave sites...

There's only so much you can do with the DC itself. I MAY change the inlet to 6". But would be more prone, either right or wrong, to just stepping up from 5" to 6" right at the inlet to duct work. But for now it will all be 4" runs to save time and $$. (6" S&D is harder to get near me, most of the 6" stuff is sch 40.).

I had added a Wynn (paper one) to that HF and it was nice --- but the thing really hated MDF and would cake up sooooooo
bad I had to go back to the bags. I could at least get them cleaner - actually ended up tearing up a part of that Wynn when I was really wacking on it.

So the new HF has a bigger motor - I bet I drew about 16-18amps on startup with the old one since it popped a 15a breaker all the time. I ended up tossing it on a new 20a circuit I ran for it.

I found 6" 2729 pvc today - 10' at $17.99 so I will be changing it over sometime sooner than anticipated. The wyes and 45's were real costly - I'm in no rush and will wait for them to go on sale. I tested the DC with a 6" piece direct on the blower and wow --- I've used the 2 - 4"s off the wye it shipped with and been happy but using a 6" --- what a difference. Whenever I do the swap out I'll think the time will be well spent doing so.

Lazy ..... oh how I know that feeling. I have about 18-20 started projects and none completed. Now the weathers wonderful and I want to be outside so ... things again on hold  :-[

If you think outside the box a little, you can reduce the amount of elbows etc.  Make a can/lid where the inlet goes in to the side, that takes away two elbows. And mount it directly under the blower like you said, and a LOT less flex tubing is used etc. The thing is the are still comes in one way, and out the other... So it will slow it down.

The cool thing about putting a baffle in the DC is its ONE piece of wood. That's it. And basically no negative effect. 

Also, I put a plastic contractor trash bag inside my cloth lower bag. Bag in a bag. Makes emptying easier.  I also upgraded my upper bag to a Rockler felt unit.