J. Phil Thien's Projects

Hello all!

I?ve been using a grizzly 1028z 1.5HP dust collector (11? propeller) with 4? flex running directly to the tools. I?m over the amount of dust escaping the bags into the air and the hassle of moving duct from tool to tool so I?ve been researching doing permanent ducts/gates and a separator.

My first thought was to buy a 6? SDD Xl and throw it on my 55g fiber bin (roughly 21? diameter). I quickly realized that I don?t have the ceiling height to accommodate this configuration. I would have to either go down to the 5? model or shrink my dust bin. I stumbled across this site in my quest for a lower profile solution.

My setup will be simple: DC & separator in the corner (directly behind/beside my TS side table) with a straight run of pipe running approx 14 feet along the wall. There will be 3 drops: cabinet saw, router table, planer. Table saw get the majority of the use in my shop so small/mid sized is the bulk of my dust.

I?ve noticed many have adopted to the top hat design over the original fittings on a flat lid. Does this offer marked improvement over the original concept? I can see benefits in having air go straight into the side, rather than using an elbow. The rectangle inlet flow also makes sense to me. Has anyone done A vs. B testing on these designs using a constant size of ducting?

On my simple layout/short duct runs, would 6? be advisable or should I just stick with 5??

For a original lid  design, has anyone tried a vertical deflection baffle (with a radius) installed between the inlet and the enter outlet to guide air and reduce bypass? It seems like a good idea, but is the additional resistance too counterproductive?

So update for today:

Wen impeller arrived today. The entire job of swapping the HF impeller to the Wen unit took all of 30 minutes, so bonus points for being easy. This also assumes you know how to use a 3 jaw puller.

The new impeller does BARELY fit into the housing though. I mean tight fit city!

The difference in airflow is noticeable, and quite large, not a surprise. The OE impeller is tiny by comparison. Not sure what Harbor Freight was thinking by using the impeller they did.

Next step is to remove / disassemble the drum separator, and verify, although I doubt it, but verify if it will fit the separator ring. Worth checking to save some labor but like I said, seriously doubt it...

While I am at it, planning on using an angle guage to get the angle for the dowels.

Anxious to get this all done as this will free up a mess of space that I badly need.

Quote from: WoodCzar on April 09, 2020, 03:12:27 PM
Yeah, with all this social distancing, I finally can dedicate some time to set up a small shop.

Right now, I plan on using Phil`s plans here: http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm  Identical, with the 45 degree elbows top and bottom, but everything 4 inch. Only thing I don`t like about it is the inside of the garbage can is not smooth. Wonder if it is an issue in anyway?

Anyway, my duct runs are relatively short. I`m going to keep the HF rig, motor side to my wall, short flex run to the can separator, short flex to a 45 degree fitting connected to my main trunk mounted same height as the separator, which will be only 8 ft or so. Only two trunks off the main to connect a table saw, and a miter saw which will adapt to a band saw and a sander.

Not using the HF bag either. Going the extra mile for the Wynn filter.

I just hope I`m not doing too much trial and error.

Good luck. Post findings. .............. Peace

I know the topic is a bit on the old side, but wanted to answer your question. Assuming you are using one of those galvanized trash cans. They work well, Not sure why, but they do. I have my 2.5" separator based off of one of them.  Not saying one way or another, but I did a separate drum based separator and I am now working on one for the separator ring in the DC itself to save space and hopefully reduce / eliniate any restriction. Might be something worth looking into.

If you see my post on lumberjocks, but long story short. I hit a pretty severe rough patch. Coming back from it now...  Trying to get things going the right way again...

Quote from: dbhost on November 16, 2021, 11:55:40 AM
@Phil

Sorry I have been out so long. Life happened ya know...

I am so sorry to hear that some jacknut is stealing your generously shared idea.

I'm no lawyer or anything like that, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday In Express, but if there is anything I can do to help with this issue. please let me know.

Wow, nice to hear from you.

Nothing much to do I guess.  I don't know what this guys application status is, I do know several reached-out to the patent office to object.

Hope you're doing well.

Since I can't find my post, and I am coming back after a few years away due to life events I would rather not go into, I figure it would help to re-intruduce myself.

I am a home DIY / Woodworking hobbyist with a garage workshop in Galveston County Texas. I dove headlong into building the shop on a budget with the blessing of my beautiful bride... And I am SOOOOO glad I did it when I did, man have prices shot up!

I'm the guy that wrote the sticky thread "Heres the plans" for building your own Thein separator. And am a Youtuber, one of my more popular videos is an explanation of how the Thien baffle works. At least to the best of my ability...

I digress.

I started with Thien separators with a 2.5" shop vac based system, including a full tubing setup. It worked, but not well enough. The baffle / separator was great, the vac wasn't even close to strong enough.

I upgraded to a Harbor Freight 2HP DC with a Wynn 35a .5 micron washable filter, and a 55 gallon side inlet separator, using a 5" x 4x4 splitter with 2 4" lines...

I am building a smaller shed workshop, with max SQ Footage of 200 due to permit restrictions for sheds in my town.  Thus I am downsizing.

The 2.5" shop vac version is still around, but only really used for drywall work in the house. I am doing a project to do an internal separator and impeller upgrade to the HF DC, this way I keep the dust collection footprint in the smaller shop down.

My family suffered some big losses several years back due to a large number of deaths of friends and family, so I stepped back from a lot of my woodworking forum activity.

We are back on our feet more or less, and I am trying to get back to my prior hopefully helpful input.

I look forward to doing all I can to promote Phils baffle design. This is a brilliant idea, and so very easy to deploy that anyone could do it!

So I am going to try to at least touch base daily, or every other day until this is done. Progress for today is...

Not a dang thing. Been working my paid job, and a little bit under the weather. I ended up with shingles, and I thought it was mostly done, today has reminded me it still f*#(ing hurts...

So first things first...

I have the 30 gallon steel trash can vac separator on a shelf, needs to go. Going to bring that in the house as I am about to hit a bunch of drywall with my RO sander...

Pull the shelf down, set aside.

Pull the 55 gallon drum, disconnect. I am gonna cut my baffle in the driveway anyway...

Once the existing separators are moved, I can then get to the DC... But I have more wiggling to do.

Pull the small air compressor from under the DC, then rotate the DC and stand 90 degrees so I can...

Roll mechanics tool box to the side so I can unplug the DC... Yeah, there is that little detail.

Still waiting for Wen impeller to ship.

Pull DC apart, and scuff with fairly high grit sandpaper.

wipe down with alcohol wipes.

Tape off parts that don't need paint, and shouldn't be removed,

Lay down cardboard surface as painting backer.

Spray with Rigid / Wen orange. Not trying to copy, I just LOVE bright orange in the shop. The HF cheap Chinese green is disgusting.

Let it cure.

Hopefully by then new impeller should be in.

Swap in new impeller.

Assemble except separator ring.

Cut new separator ring.

Futz with angles and figure out risers.

Cut risers.

Mount risers, cartridge filter, and then baffle.

Finally put on catch bag.

Attach 5" to dual 4" adapter.

Test. I have a big ol pile of various dust and shavings that would work great for test media.

Assuming test successful reposition everything, leaving old separator out.

Take some pretty pics and post here.

So that's it. Wish me luck!

@Phil

Sorry I have been out so long. Life happened ya know...

I am so sorry to hear that some jacknut is stealing your generously shared idea.

I'm no lawyer or anything like that, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday In Express, but if there is anything I can do to help with this issue. please let me know.

@Vaughn

I know it's been a LONG time, and you likely don't check here often if at all any more. But I just wanted to touch base on this.

I went as you may recall, with a side inlet 55 gallon drum separator and now need to downsize a bit.

I am going with your idea here. I was hoping I could get more info on how you made the standoffs.

I figure I will get the angles down, then chuck it in the lathe and drill the holes in the dowel material

The concept of a separator is to allow the debris laden air to slow down enough to drop its load, and prevent it from picking the load back up before moving on to the filter. The problem with hair is it has a very low mass, and large surface area, kind of like a feather does, thus getting hair to drop out a moving airstream is VERY difficult.

From the photos, the dusttopper looks like it is a rip off of the Thien separator concept.  I don't see how it would be any better or worse than a home made Thien separator.