J. Phil Thien's Projects

Been thinking about this for a while. Toilets flush counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere as opposed to clockwise below the equator. Same goes for the air spinning in  tornadoes.

I see most cyclone designs the vortex counter clockwise. But I do see some that create a clockwise flow.

Is there anyone that mapped out the repercussions of a design that went clockwise?

Just sayin`

Quote from: alan m on April 27, 2020, 02:23:08 PM
every bend you put in a dc system reduces its efficiency and increases resistance , and reduces air flow. be angling the inlet it means the change in angle of the dust is only 45 degrees ang not 90.. so it should be better

I was thinking about the direction the outlet was sucking up. Instead of pulling the air strait up, it appears the 45 elbow would be drawing the air from the path of the incoming inlet? Maybe I`m splitting hairs here?

Also is the placement, or spacing of the three baffle supports at all critical? Looks like Phil`s design has the first one right after the inlet. Seems to be the best spot?

Is there a reason Phil`s design shows the outlet, using a 45 degree fitting entering the top/center of the separator?

Seems most people go strait down. Coming in on a 45 would have some affect whether good or bad?

Quote from: alan m on April 25, 2020, 04:52:04 PM
..................................... I wouldn't di this on a single height separator because the dust coming around from behind will end up hitting it and creating disturbance or just forces to the inside of it. .........................................

What is a single height separator?

Allrighty then, let me try this,

Topographical view of the baffle (not to scale):

- 240 degree Drop Slot as described.
- 4" inlet and outlet as described.
- 3 point mounts to the top lid not shown.
- Proposed `Wall` as I have been trying to describe, shown as dotted line.

Apologize for the confusion

Hello Alan,

Guess it`s hard to explain but picture exactly the separator Mr. Thien has pictured here (http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm). He pictures using 2.5" inlet elbow going down into the `plenum`. The inlet is placed over the 1/3rd section of baffle that is not notched. Also, it appears the inlet is positioned tight to the outboard side of the plenum (baffle chamber). Or, against the metal garbage can he has pictured.

From the pictures, the distance from the bottom of the lid to the top of the baffle is the same height of the 2.5 inlet fitting. Making the height of the plenum a little over 2.5".

My thinking is creating a full height vertical wall (full height of plenum), or even possibly a shorter 1" or 2" knee wall (thin material, metal flat stock)? Starting at the inboard side of his inlet, and follow the radius of that point, several inches away to the drop slot.

This vertical wall might help channel more material (fines) over the drop slot? And at the same time, depending on the height of the wall and positioning it, allowing the circular movement inside the plenum.

As I`m using 4" ducting, my numbers will obviously be scaled.

Hope this explains better.

As I slowly and meticulously build my Thien Seperator and try to find out the relationship of the height of the top lid down to the baffle, in relationship to the size of the duct work of the inlet, what about creating a radius`d wall from the inlet duct to the drop slot of the baffle? So if I`m using a 4" inlet, create a full height wall using 20ga flat stock metal.

I ask this as it appears the height distance of this opening varies from one builder to another? Mr. Thien appears to have little or no extra clearance from the height of the inlet, and I`ve seen others state great success with what appears to have double or triple the height of the inlet duct.

But the wall might give better cyclone action and divert more solids to the drop slot? Maybe, even a 1 or 2" high wall?

Know of anyone to try this?

Yeah, with all this social distancing, I finally can dedicate some time to set up a small shop.

Right now, I plan on using Phil`s plans here: http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm  Identical, with the 45 degree elbows top and bottom, but everything 4 inch. Only thing I don`t like about it is the inside of the garbage can is not smooth. Wonder if it is an issue in anyway?

Anyway, my duct runs are relatively short. I`m going to keep the HF rig, motor side to my wall, short flex run to the can separator, short flex to a 45 degree fitting connected to my main trunk mounted same height as the separator, which will be only 8 ft or so. Only two trunks off the main to connect a table saw, and a miter saw which will adapt to a band saw and a sander.

Not using the HF bag either. Going the extra mile for the Wynn filter.

I just hope I`m not doing too much trial and error.

Good luck. Post findings. .............. Peace

Hope this message finds everyone here well:

Though a long time member here, I have not got around to setting up my dust collection system until now. After 30 minutes or so of searching, I guess I`m looking for the latest information or plans for a 4" inlet baffle, using a 2hp Harbor Freight set up. (I see the basic specs for a 5 gal can set up).

Thought I`d post this question out there as I continue to search.


Also, just read the thread of Home Depot selling Phil`s and other`s work. Incredible.

Peace

Geez,

I just saw this guy`s video.

Besides the fact he stole the whole concept from this very site, he must have got a huge amount of help in getting this to the Home Depot shelves as fast as it did.

Besides, I wouldn`t trust anyone that lays paper down to protect his wood shop floor from sawdust. 

Maybe it can be looked at this way? .......... Not only can this guy get sued now, but Home Depot?

Actually getting one`s hand`s on this Central Machinery part aside, I was thinking the function of this partial cone shape flange around the perimeter aiding in creating a cyclone and perhaps drop more material down around the perimeter?

Another thought about possibly creating a better drop around the perimeter is simply add a 4" flap to the current home made designs (maybe a thin piece of slightly curved, spring steel?), curved down from the top of the inlet, inside the tophat. (Be a easy thing to add to one`s design too).

I`m certainly no air flow engineer, but I can`t help but think this out and see if other`s have tried it.

JGT, .......... I just took a look at your set up. What I was thinking is exactly what you have done, but leave the stock bag and filter configuration stock, and simply buy (if Harbor Freight will sell me one at a fair price) another metal 'separator' (component between the plastic bag and the fabric filter/see pictures) to modify and use as a top hat in place of fully fabricating one as you did.

What is the brand of the collector you have pictured? My HF metal separator has a wide tapered flange at the top of it (see picture). It could easily be capped off at the lower end of the flange with a outlet connection to go to the impeller. The bottom shape of this tapered flange (see picture) might help in air flow on the inlet. Of course it would have to be modded with a baffle to the bottom as well.

Your design looks great. It seems you used 1.5" angle for supports? Is that a stock metal platform that everything is sitting on? Is the angle welded to the platform? Looks sturdy.

Thinking out loud, ......... would it be a good idea to get another HF stock, cylindrical separator (piece between the upper filter and the lower plastic bag) to modify it with the baffle/separator to sit on the garbage can. (basically a pre made Top Hat)
The shape of this stock piece, plus the side input might also help in less drag? It does have tapered metal flange at top above the intake (might be useful in the airflow?). Not to mention modding this would be less trouble than starting from scratch.

I noticed some vent the dust outside not using this stock piece. Maybe they tried to mod it?
Wonder if HF would sell me one?

Thanks jDon for the much needed explainations. The rectangular inlet sounds good. All mentally noted.

This might be a dumb question, but I have to ask. Has anyone tried putting the inlet just below the baffle? Why would`nt the seperation by the baffle be helpfull? Letting the 1" slot in the baffle transfer the suction to the outlet?

Wanting a dust collector for as long as I can remember, and for some strange reason I am finally going to purchase one, I am just now getting my mind adjusted to modding it as I discovered this thru DC reviews.

With that said, I am green at this concept, but intrigued enough, and read enough to know I`ll want to do this when I get my DC later this week. So, not seeing any newbie sections of this forum, I just want to get a few questions out of the way.

- I see there are two basic ways of creating a baffle. One that sits inside the collection container, and a completely manufactured baffle system that sits on top of the container (Top Hat?). In both of these designs, seems more people are leaning to creating the inlet on the side, as opposed to dropping it down from the top. Is this proven better, and does the 'material drop section' of the baffle need to be enlarged/lessened or modded differently because of the side inlet?

- Also, in Phil`s design, both the inlet and outlet are angled in from the top. Are the top side builders getting better results with this?

- I also noticed there is no real set best design for doing any of this? I`m guessing the size and strength of the suction requires all the experimentation with different designs? Thinking out loud, be nice to have different threads started for different machines? This would put readers on a similar track to there needs and thoughts.

With all the different designs, dimesions and materials, there is no best way?