I am a new member to this forum but I have been gathering insight here for a month or two. Like alot of others, I was looking for a way to avoid emptying the DC bags as often. My design goals were as follows...
1) Integrate the separator within my existing system such that it could be used by everything or easily bypassed.
2) Design the separator to sit on top of the can so that (a) the can's full volume could be utilized (b) 6" ports could be used (c) I could readily modify it to work with another container
Here is the core of the separator where you can see the side entry port
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00448.jpg)
In this photo, I have just added the 1/8" hardboard in the core to create the perfectly round skin. You may be able to see that I beveled the leading edge (nearest the entry port)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00450.jpg)
Here is the 1" thick bottom plate with a 5/8" x 3/4" deep groove around the perimeter that perfectly mates my current trash can. You can also see the 1 1/8" drop slot.
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00452.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00456.jpg)
This photo shows the underside of the top plate. The green 6? PVC pipe passes through the plate and is tightly trapped by a coupler on the top and 1? cut-off from that same coupler on the bottom.
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00460.jpg)
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00459.jpg)
Now? on to integrating my new toy into my DC system!
Nice work. That deserves a fancy paint job. :)
Here it is integrated into my DC system. I REALLY like the side benefit of having a more accessible switch.
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00463.jpg)
The results from its first test while cleaning up the shop
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/DSC00465.jpg)
And finally, here is a video of it working with the hose between the motor and DC bags disconnected so that you can see how well it works!
Demo Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVCqHsa_zq4)
-Don
is that a 50-850 and when you dump the can does your seperator hang from the center flex tube. or do u have a couple of french cleats on studs so that it can sit on can and then b lifted and put on a higher cleat to hold it up while u dump the can. how does the plastic can hold up to the suction forces. oh yea nice job. what is the size (schedule) of the 6" green pipe and what size is the white pipe.
That is some very nice work...
Nice job, wish mine looked as good as that!
Very nice design! And inspiring -- which means that I'm planning to steal a bunch of ideas from you. ;)
As a complete Newb who has looked at other builds, it appears that the 1-3/8" drop slot is the same size regardless of what size ports you use, is that correct? I would have thought that the drop slot would change as you increased the airflow, this is not causing any restrictions for those who use the 6" ports vs. the 4" ports?
Paul
Quote from: pprobus on January 15, 2010, 12:08:13 PM
As a complete Newb who has looked at other builds, it appears that the 1-3/8" drop slot is the same size regardless of what size ports you use, is that correct? I would have thought that the drop slot would change as you increased the airflow, this is not causing any restrictions for those who use the 6" ports vs. the 4" ports?
Paul
Right, drop slot depends on media you're separating (sawdust), not CFM.
Thank you, sir. Makes sense, now.
Paul
As an update, after completing a couple of projects, I just had to empty a 3/4 full trash can for the first time. The lower bag of the DC may have had an inch or two of material. I am a HAPPY camper with this! I used a garden watering can to wet down the material in the trash can before popping the lid on. I then delivered it to the dump - no fuss, no inhaled dust! The moist dust didn't even cloud up when I poured it out into the brush bin at the recycle center. A BIG improvement over the last bag emptying episode where I inhaled more dust in 5 minutes than the months of woodworking that created the mess.
Thanks to Phil for this site and all of the folks here for sharing their ideas!
Quote from: vawoodworker84 on January 27, 2010, 09:07:24 AM
As an update, after completing a couple of projects, I just had to empty a 3/4 full trash can for the first time. The lower bag of the DC may have had an inch or two of material. I am a HAPPY camper with this! I used a garden watering can to wet down the material in the trash can before popping the lid on. I then delivered it to the dump - no fuss, no inhaled dust! The moist dust didn't even cloud up when I poured it out into the brush bin at the recycle center. A BIG improvement over the last bag emptying episode where I inhaled more dust in 5 minutes than the months of woodworking that created the mess.
Thanks to Phil for this site and all of the folks here for sharing their ideas!
I'm going to have to remember that watering trick. I want a topper too, but it'll mean cutting down a drum to get it under my 50-760 and to have either 5" or 6" pipework (not to mention actually organizing the shop so I can use it ::) ). Right now mobility is higher on the list.
Ditto on the Kudu's for Phil and the site. There's more value on this site for great penny pinching dust collection than many many others.
I had somebody ask me about design on this. So, I am posting my basic incomplete rendering I did with visio while I was thinking throught the design.
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x197/vawoodworker84/mbs/shop_dc/dc.jpg)
Just built one inspired by this one - mine is on top of a 30 gallon recycled dairy drum, and I just glued the 6" thinwall pipe into the side and top. It works as advertised, dumped everything in the bag from the dc onto the floor, and sucked it up as a test. I'd say at least 95% of the stuff dumped went into the separator, and only a handful of fines went back into the bag. I'm totally sold. Will try to post pictures of the completed build, if I can stop using it long enough.
Thanks, Phil. Hope you got my contribution, because I got a paypal receipt for it. Thanks DB host, VAwoodworker 84, Greg Mcallister, and all the other folks who have contributed to my design juices. This was very much fun, very inexpensive, and VERY worthwhile. ::)
This looks like exactly the project I was thinking to build to intercept most of the debris before it gets to my 2hp HF DC. I am thinking that I will build a single unit with a 5" input that attaches the blower directly above the baffle and the motor directly above the blower, with the output from the blower feeding into the DC filter/collection bag. If I build the baffle unit from plywood it should be strong enough to carry the weight of the motor and the blower, with the catch barrel clamped from below (and able to be separated and lowered for emptying with the motor, blower and baffle staying stationary).
One question I could not answer for myself is the angle at which the baffle is oriented. It seems to me that the flat part of the baffle in this design is horizontal (i.e., parallel to the ground) while other baffle designs seem to be slanted. Is this appearance just the because of the way things were photographed?
Also, how far down into the swirling air should be central vent be to minimize the sawdust that is picked up and sent into the DC. It seems that most have the central pipe only going 1-2 inches below the top surface.
Finally, I am planning to use a galvanized steel garbage can. Is a 2hp HF DC likely to collapse that if there is blockage in the air flow?
Thanks for this great baffle design and this example of how to implement it!
-Will
I love this design, and wish I stumbled across it when I first found Mr. Thien's series of threads here. I have just finished making my first Thien Cyclone Separator lid, and it fits into my 20 gal garbage can. I, too, have a DELTA 50-760 like Brian Marks (http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=132.0), and I have oriented my garbage can just like he did directly under intake on the DC. Once I finished my project, I noticed that I have 13" of space between the top of my garbage can and the bottom of my DC. I will use my new Thien Cyclone Separator lid to make one very similiar to this one, once I draw up the plans to fit my existing 20 gal metal garbage can.
Very Nice job again, VAWOODWORKER. ;D :)
Someone else asked "Does a PLASTIC trash can REALLY work without collapsing"? Please - anyone - post an answer to the question. I'm ready to build, and my plastic trash can is here, but I DON'T want to build the entire thing, only to collapse the container. Thanx Jim
jfin,
The best answer to does a plastic container buckle used with a Thien is... It depends...
A shop vac pulls MUCH greater static pressure and will buckle most trash cans, dust collectors however, pull lower static pressure, and may, or may not buckle the trash can depending on the can. If you are using a rigid container like a 30 or 55 gallon drum, then no, you won't collapse it, not even with a shop vac, but if you are using one of those nice soft plastic cans like a Rubbermaid or whatever, chances are REALLY good that is the wrong container...
dbhost - very fair response! And, thank you. My plan is a HF 2hp DC, modified to get the blower venting directly into the filter system (no 5" flex hose), and an "on can" separator similar to the one in this thread. Rubbermaid makes some commercial/industrial 32 gal "trash cans", and I see a plastic one in this thread.
Given this info, any more inputs are GREATLY appreciated!
Just finished a 5" side inlet galvanized can baffle project - so far I've not had the can collapse, but I used the original metal can lid and I have had that oil can to nearly flat (instead of the slightly dome shape it normally has)
See http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=320.0
Fred
Again, thanks dbhost for your input. Got a note from vawoodworker84. His plastic container is doing fine. Rubbermaid has a commercial line called BRUTE, and I'll go with the 32 gallon. Let ya'all know how it works out when I get it built. Jim
I agree - I really don't have a GOOD reason - or, at least I can't think of one! And, I may go back to metal. We'll see what is available locally. Jim
This is a great build good work.!
I have been lurking here for a while and am in the process of building a very similar design/clone to add to my HF DC unit. I was wondering about the airflow direction and the intake pipe placement. Seems to me from the setup in the picture that when the motor/fan unit is on top the air flow is clockwise if looking down at it. The air flow / cyclone in the topper I am assuming is also in the same direction as the blower unit. In the picture the debris are coming in at an angle to the airflow around the topper. In my plans I had the pipe coming in on the other direction on the corner where the intake is located to keep what I assume is the intake getting pulled from the 6" pipe.
In the pictured design it seems like the debris comes into the topper and makes a hard left. OR the airflow is going in the other direction in the topper? if so then the debris enters the topper and can get sucked directly to the wall of the topper.
Help!!
If it doesn't matter then cool because that would really help my piping location in the shop !
Quote from: gregascull on June 07, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
In the pictured design it seems like the debris comes into the topper and makes a hard left. OR the airflow is going in the other direction in the topper? if so then the debris enters the topper and can get sucked directly to the wall of the topper.
Ok, So I thought about it and i guess my question can be a lot simpler to ask.
Is the direction of the cyclone in the topper established by the intake port, or the impeller on the motor?
I was assuming that the direction that the cyclone is swirling is established by the fan/impeller?
Quote from: gregascull on June 08, 2010, 08:54:59 AM
Quote from: gregascull on June 07, 2010, 06:13:26 PM
In the pictured design it seems like the debris comes into the topper and makes a hard left. OR the airflow is going in the other direction in the topper? if so then the debris enters the topper and can get sucked directly to the wall of the topper.
Ok, So I thought about it and i guess my question can be a lot simpler to ask.
Is the direction of the cyclone in the topper established by the intake port, or the impeller on the motor?
I was assuming that the direction that the cyclone is swirling is established by the fan/impeller?
Intake port.
Interesting.
I guess I just figured that if there wasn't a topper connected that there is some level of air rotation in the tube connected to the impeller intake. If that rotation is continued in the separator I figured it would be more efficient.
Probably wouldn't matter even if there was because I would have to have a full 90 bend to accomplish my original plan. If it doesn't matter what "side" the intake port of the separator comes in on its way easier for me to duct.
Thanks Phil for ALL of your help!
I am interested in building this but I have not seen the dimension for the depth of the unit. Could you please explain.
Thanks
Most people (myself included) use the diameter of the inlet to determine the thickness of the baffle housing. For example, my inlet pipe is 6", so I made the interior height of the separator 6 1/4". Other builds that have the inlet come through the top use the height mandated by the elbow to determine the placement of the baffle. The overall diameter of the baffle itself is determined by the collection container diameter, with the smaller diameter achieving higher rotation speed and an improved cyclonic action. I am sure there is a definite point of diminishing returns on both dimensions. I've built a baffle based upon a 30 gallon and 5 gallon bucket/barrel have found that both are very efficient.
Steve
Really explained that well. Bulldog! ;) Perfect!
Bulldo8,
You make an interesting comment about the smaller diameter baffle has higher rotation speed and improved cyclone actions.
My question would be why can't you use a 55 gallon container but make the baffle a little smaller? The container is just a collection unit. So you would get higher rotation and improved cyclone action but it would collect more material.
Is the difference going to matter?
Sailfl, you could use a 55 gallon barrel and make a smaller separator to tighten the rotation. For example if you were using a shopvac to move the air, it's unlikely that you would have enough CFM to use the full diameter a 55 gallon barrel. You would have to make the baffle and chamber less than the full diameter of the barrel to keep the debris spinning fast enough for good separation.
Likewise if you were using a DC with a 12" impeller and a 6" inlet, a chamber that is too small in diameter would not keep the outlet far enough from the debris stream to provide the best possible separation. (think 5 gallon bucket connected with a DC)
Somewhere in the middle of these extremes are the separators that provide the level of separation the keeps the fines from the filter.
Steve
I realise that this is an old thread, but I couldn't find the orginator's email address to ask him privately. I wonder if I can ask a couple of questions:
1. for vawoodworker84, in your first build photo there look like screws coming through the top and bottom of the hat, in between each side panel. Are these to guide the flexible wall when it goes in? i.e. to stop the wall from going into the angles between the side panels?
2. For anyone: the baffle on this build is said to be 1 inch. I thought I saw somewhere that it should be about 1/8 inch?? Or is that only necessary in the original Phil design?
Quote from: chrism3 on December 01, 2017, 11:35:36 PM
I realise that this is an old thread, but I couldn't find the orginator's email address to ask him privately. I wonder if I can ask a couple of questions:
1. for vawoodworker84, in your first build photo there look like screws coming through the top and bottom of the hat, in between each side panel. Are these to guide the flexible wall when it goes in? i.e. to stop the wall from going into the angles between the side panels?
2. For anyone: the baffle on this build is said to be 1 inch. I thought I saw somewhere that it should be about 1/8 inch?? Or is that only necessary in the original Phil design?
The OP was active as recent as the end of Sept. Were you not able to send a private message using forum software?
1) I don't see any reason for the screws. The flexible wall is shaped and retained by the top and bottom plate so it does not appear the screws are doing anything, including aiding the assembly.
2) A thinner baffle plate is better. If all you are separating is saw dust and fines, it might not make any difference, but if you are separating shavings from a jointer or planer it is much easier to have the stringy stuff hang up and cause a blockage. I have a 1/4" baffle plate and I sent some wet planer shavings into the separator. The end of the drop slot would catch the long shavings and in no time the separator was completely blocked and filled with shavings. The process would repeat as soon as I cleaned out the mess. Since the end of the drop slot is very prone to catching shavings, it should be thing, nicely rounded and smooth so there are not corners or edges for things to snag onto.
I hadn't found the private message feature - I have now. Thanks for your answers.