For the price I paid, I've been very pleased with my Harbor Freight dust collector. From the get-go I added a 0.5 micron pleated filter and a neutral vane to improve the performance. Here's the story (http://workingwoods.com/hot_rodding_a_DC.htm) on that part. However, every time I emptied the lower bag I had to remove the filter to clean all the embedded chips and sawdust from between the pleats of the filter. The solids were not staying in the lower bag like they were supposed to.
I'd read good things about Phil's baffle, so I decided to adapt it for my Harbor Freight DC. I wanted to see if it'd help my DC without a detached separator unit.
Here's the separator, removed from the DC and turned upside down...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2001%20-%20600.jpg)
The inside diameter of the separator is 19", so I needed to draw a 19" circle on the masonite. I don't have a compass that big, but I do have a nail, a pencil, and some scrap wood...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2005%20-%20600.jpg)
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2006%20-%20600.jpg)
Then I needed another circle, 1 1/2" inside the first one. Same approach, just a different hole for the pencil...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2007%20-%20600.jpg)
Then I laid out the 120? part of the circle...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2008%20-%20600.jpg)
And got busy with the jigsaw...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2009%20-%20600.jpg)
Next, I needed some standoffs to hold the baffle in place. I used some 1 1/4" (as I recall) dowel material I picked up at the Borg. I had to play around a bit to figure out the angle to cut the ends to match the slope of the separator. I have no idea what the actual number ended up being, but it worked. I also drilled the holes in the end before cutting the angle...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2012%20-%20600.jpg)
Then I attached them with screws at roughly equal points around the separator...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2013%20-%20600.jpg)
And attached the baffle to the tops of the standoffs. (Actually, it's the bottom once the separator is turned right-side up.)
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2014%20-%20600.jpg)
And a shot of the finished installation after putting the filter back on (but before attaching the lower bag). This is looking straight up into the bottom of the separator. I had to attach the filter before installing the baffle, since with the baffle in place, I could not reach the turnbuckles that hold the filter in place...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Thien%20Baffle%2015%20-%20600.jpg)
Before I added the separator, I could walk by my DC at any time, bang the sides of the filter, and see clouds of sawdust fall off the filter and into the lower bag. I have now been through two fillings of the lower bag since I added the baffle, and although I've not removed the baffle to check the condition of the filter, I get absolutely no dust falling now when I bang the sides of the filter. My DC seems to perform better, since the filter's not getting clogged, and emptying the lower bag (and cleaning the filter) is no longer the nasty chore it used to be. It will be a bit more work to remove the filter now, because I'll have to remove the baffle first, but based on what I'm seeing so far, I won't be needing to remove the filter any time soon.
I'm very impressed with how condensed the debris stream is when it drops into the lower bag. Previously, I could see the material swirl around the bag, but with the baffle, the spiraling stream of dust and chips looks like it's being shot out of a hose. I've also nearly filled the lower bag (12" to 18" from the top of the bag) with chips from my planer, and still saw no signs of chips going into the filter.
I'll give the Thien Baffle two thumbs up. ;D
Thanks much, Phil.
I'm not sure about this, but I think the general consensus is that if you have Phil's baffle installed, you don't need the neutral vane, and quite possibly that neutral vane could be doing more harm than good... I am NOT sure though... I just seem to recall a post here about this...
I am curious. Either my eyes are fooling me, or your inlet ring is black... Is that shop done / custom or is that some older model HF DC?
For what it's worth, I am considering this modification myself. I have nearly finished a trash can separator, but floor space in my shop is screaming at me since I have BOTH a DC and a shop vac with a Thien trash can cyclone...
Thanks for the comments. I think I've also seen something here saying the neutral vane is not necessary, but I figured I'd give it a try before removing it, since I used pop rivets to install it. So far it doesn't seem to be hampering anything, but I'm open to suggestions for things to look for to see if it is.
Like for you, floor space is scarce in my shop. That's why I decided to try this approach instead of building a free-standing separator. I figured for the cost of a 2' x 2' piece of Masonite, it was worth experimenting. (And indeed it has been.)
The inside of my inlet ring is sort of a gunmetal gray...that's how it came from China. The outside is Rustoleum purple metal flake...I wanted to have the only purple DC on the block. ;D The 'Hoover' logo on magnetic sign material just seemed necessary, somehow. ::)
Hmmm.... A purple DC huh?
Not a horrid idea. I hate the funky green color that Harbor Freight uses...
Of course if you are going to go with purple...
(http://www.stockmopar.com/_images/cuda/1970-plum-crazy-purple-hemi-cuda/1970-plum-crazy-purple-hemi-cuda-1.jpg)
Sorry, I always loved Plum Crazy 'Cudas...
I have a mess of hardboard in the stack in the corner of my shop. I haven't seen a better approach to adding a baffle to the HF DC than the one you used... I think I am going to give that a try... I have just GOT to save some space...
Well, I guess I'd better post a pic of my compressor...
(http://workingwoods.com/shop%20pics/Air%20System%2019%20-%20600.jpg)
The Powermatic lathe will remain mustard colored, though. ;)
Okay I gotta ask...
"Hey, does that thing got a Hemi?"
(http://workingwoods.com/dust%20collector/Hoover%20DC%201%20600.jpg)
You really ought to show that thing off... That is one wild looking paint job on that DC...
I browsed your site. Nice turning work for a "newbie".
Heck, I don't even have a lathe yet...
Thanks for the compliments, DB. Like you, I really didn't like the HF green, so I figured for the cost of a couple rattlecans I could have some fun. ;D
I've Considered repainting mine, but I bought the extended warranty for mine, and am concerned they might fuss if I take a Ford Jalapeno Green, or maybe Hugger Orange dust collector in to them...
BTW. Do you have a formal background in art or are you self taught?
Quote from: Vaughn on April 01, 2009, 10:50:39 PM
Thanks for the compliments, DB. Like you, I really didn't like the HF green, so I figured for the cost of a couple rattlecans I could have some fun. ;D
Good spraying practice too.
Quote from: dbhost on April 02, 2009, 07:49:14 AM
I've Considered repainting mine, but I bought the extended warranty for mine, and am concerned they might fuss if I take a Ford Jalapeno Green, or maybe Hugger Orange dust collector in to them...
BTW. Do you have a formal background in art or are you self taught?
Ah, c'mon, go for it. ;D If anything breaks under warranty, it'll be the switch or the motor. Just don't paint those parts. ;)
No real training in the arts (aside from music), but I've been dabbling with artsy things all my life. I think the DC paint job had more to do with humor than art, though. It's not nearly as artful as Benny's faux leather paneled R2D2 shop vac. ;D
Haha!! Thanks man :D Hey, ya never know what awesome material will be on clearance!!
I'm a musician too, bari sax. My next big WWing project is going to be a wooden sax stand for it. Should make plenty of chips and dust making it!
After the wooden sax case, howsabout making a wooden sax?
http://saxwood.net/index.php
I'm a guitarist, and although I've made a lap steel and some solid electric bodies, I still want to build an acoustic guitar one of these days.
Speaking of cases, did you happen to see my pool cue case (http://workingwoods.com/quilted_maple_pool_cue_case.htm)?
Nice case! I really want to make a stand... The metal one I have isn't as stable as I'd like. It's a heavy horn!
A friend of mine and I are thinking of taking a cheap bass and a cheap guitar and making them into a double neck :D Should be interesting, if someone Spinal Tapian.
Quote from: bennybmn on April 03, 2009, 04:54:58 PM
...I really want to make a stand...
Doh! Mental vapor lock. Sorry about that.
I think the double neck sounds like a fun project, Especially if it's making something cool out of a couple cheapies. Some of the older cheap guitars have surprisingly good necks. I used to teach guitar lessons on an old Harmony guitar. (Made at the time Harmony was also making Sears guitars. My teacher used essentially the same guitar with a Silvertone label on it.) It had cheap electronics but it played like a champ. I used it to prove to the kids that you don't have to have a brand-new Strat or Les Paul to be able to play Led Zepplin and Rush. (And my teacher was in the next studio on his Sears guitar, playing Larry Carlton and Chet Atkins stuff.) ;)
I have considered rebuilding or reinforcing my case, but the thing is HEAVY as it is!
Yeah the cheap guitar thing is also since we'll be CUTTING them, don't want to wreck anything good!
I like your design and detailed photos on the HF mod withthe baffle inside. I plan make one to fit my Shop Fox DC. Could you please give some details on the nuetral vane you installed? What material did you use? Is the pipe one diameter or did you make it a smaller diameter on the end that extends into the baffle? In the photo it does appear a bit smaller. Where did you place the pop rivets to make sure it stays in place? Thanks again for sharing your detailed pics and writeup.
Quote from: Donald Roth on November 21, 2011, 11:59:34 AM
I like your design and detailed photos on the HF mod withthe baffle inside. I plan make one to fit my Shop Fox DC. Could you please give some details on the nuetral vane you installed? What material did you use? Is the pipe one diameter or did you make it a smaller diameter on the end that extends into the baffle? In the photo it does appear a bit smaller. Where did you place the pop rivets to make sure it stays in place? Thanks again for sharing your detailed pics and writeup.
The neutral vane was made of galvanized sheet metal flashing. I'm not sure it added any benefit, and in fact I removed it the last time I had the DC apart, just to see if there was any improvement or if the neutral vane made things worse. Shape-wise, it's essentially a cylinder with one end trimmed at an angle to allow it to go up snug against the body of the DC. I started with a template made of poster board and kept trimming it until it fit. The pop rivets are only holding the neutral vane into its shape. The vane is not actually attached to the DC. It's just held in place with friction.
I hope this helps.
I see now where you detailed the construction of the nuetral vane with a link.
So did you arrive at a conclusion whether it is more effective with nuetral vane installed, or about the same, or? Are you running your DC with it or w/o it now?
A separate question is: What is the measurement of the width of the "collar" on which the Wynn filter sits? Mine is 9" and I'm wondering if your "Hoover" is the same? My diameter is the same as yours. Would you mind putting a tape on the collar and tell me the width. Very nice documentation and pics, by the way to help those of us who are just starting to get their tools and shops put together. Thanks very much.
Well, it's been several years since the last post in this thread, and I never did notice the questions Donald Roth posted way back then. My apologies. Better late than never with the answer, huh? ;D Ya never know when a Google search will lead someone to this thread.
Regarding the neutral vane, using my own totally unscientific gut feeling, I think the performance of the baffle and the DC is better without it. After I took mine out, it stayed out and eventually ended up in the trash.
Unfortunately, I'm not able to answer Donald's other question about the dimensions since my shop tools are currently in storage. I moved from California to New Mexico earlier this year and don't have my shop set up yet. Nonetheless, my "Hoover" is just a painted Harbor Freight DC, so the dimensions will match yours if you have one. ;)
I'm getting ready to buy a HF DC. Your design is the only one I've seen that is built into the actual DC and not a separate can. I like the small footprint as I have a smaller shop. Are you convicted that it works pretty much as well as the Baffles that have a separate canister? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks
Just curious .... isn't the dust from the filter just falling down through the cone and landing on the thien baffel ☺☺.. :)
Quote from: bbqguy on July 21, 2015, 08:17:31 PM
I'm getting ready to buy a HF DC. Your design is the only one I've seen that is built into the actual DC and not a separate can. I like the small footprint as I have a smaller shop. Are you convicted that it works pretty much as well as the Baffles that have a separate canister? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks
I've not tried the separate canister approach, so I really don't have a good A to B comparison. I can say though, that I've been very happy with the way the DC performs with the internal baffle.
Quote from: lakrissen on September 11, 2015, 10:57:21 AM
Just curious .... isn't the dust from the filter just falling down through the cone and landing on the thien baffel ☺☺.. :)
The whole purpose of the baffle is to keep the dust out of the filter in the first place, and it seems to do that very well. Any dust or chips that do happen to end up in the upper section of the DC will indeed fall on top of the baffle when the DC is turned off, but it tends to get forced into the lower half (the collection bag) the next time the DC is turned on. Nothing in dust collection is perfect, but the baffle and Wynn filter are a vast improvement over the stock configuration. :)
I'm getting ready to add a Thien baffle to my HFDC. I'm planning on just exhausting the air outside the building and let the wind blow away the dust. There are some advantages to living on a farm.
My plan is to start with the ring that originally holds the filter and plastic bag. I'm going to sandwich this ring between two pieces of plywood. The bottom will be the Thien baffle and the top will have a center hole to which the suction hose of the blower will be attached. This assembly will then set on a box or trash can to collect the chips or whatever.
Does anyone know if the blower can be run with the motor shaft vertical? This would simplify the build quite a bit as I could just mount the blower on the top plywood panel with the short inlet pipe inserted into the top piece of plywood.
Steve
I'm definitely putting this modification on my (already too long) pending-projects list; thanks for the nice simple design! (I was wondering how I was going to hold the disk in place...) Two questions, if I may:
Sanity check 1: The drop slot should still end shortly before the inlet port, right? (IE, the solid area starts just at the point of highest airflow, where it can best prevent scrubbing.)
Sanity check 2: Has anyone determined whether 2/3-circumference is still the best slot length in this approach? In Phil's original version, and Vaughn's, the circulating airflow was obstructed at that point by the inlet tube/neutral vane. It's possible that this interacted with the slot length, and with a side-injected chamber a different slot length might be worth trying. Or it might not, or it might not be worth the effort to experiment with, but if anyone has actually tested it I'd be interested in hearing the results.
[Afterthought: Ah, I see -- this is effectively a pressure (as opposed to suction) Top Hat design, with separator suspended rather than attached at the periphery for simplicity's sake and to avoid interfering with bag attachment. Nice. Now if we can just come up with a way to replace the bag with a barrel...]
Instead of replacing the bag with a barrel, I thought about just letting the bag sit in a metal trash can. And, I?m considering figuring out a way to vent the top of the separator outside instead of into the Wynn filter.
@Vaughn
I know it's been a LONG time, and you likely don't check here often if at all any more. But I just wanted to touch base on this.
I went as you may recall, with a side inlet 55 gallon drum separator and now need to downsize a bit.
I am going with your idea here. I was hoping I could get more info on how you made the standoffs.
I figure I will get the angles down, then chuck it in the lathe and drill the holes in the dowel material
I did this so I could remove the filter without the need to remove the bag and separator.
Response to BigSteve
I modified my HF with the shaft vertical several years ago and it runs fine.