I have a Delta 50-866 which I had converted from using the cloth bags to a plastic bag on bottom and a Wynn 9L300NANO filter on top. From the pic's you will see I had to cut the top, put in a base (of MDF) to attach the filter.
I would like to adapt the baffle design to this. What I was thinking is inside at the bottom putting in the bottom design baffle (with the 240 degree cutout) and then at the top adding another mdf round cutout with a 3" opening for a pipe that would go into the Wynn filter.
As you can see from the inside view there already is a cyclone cutout so the baffle bottom would be below that.
This is a 5 hp motor and there is two filters like this (one on each side).
Has anyone adapted to this type of DC or have any lessons learned that I can use.
2 more additional pics that might help???
From what I can see in the pictures, your intake hose(s) go directly into the inlet side of the impeller. This means that all materials are going through the impeller and then into the bag/filter setup. Ideally you would want to put the separator before the impeller.
Is this what you want/intend to do ?
No. I wanted to stop the swirl effect which makes the top filters fill up quickly. I will have a 10" intake into the impeller and cannot find a big enough cyclone for that so wanted to see what I can do after the impeller.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
3" outlet pipes sound a bit on the small side, even though you will have two. This will reduce your airflow. I saw a significant increase in airflow when I changed from a 6" to an 8" outlet pipe in an application similar to yours (except for the 1.5 HP blower)
If your filters are filling up too fast, that means the current separation isn't efficient. I really believe separating before the impeller is best. A finely tuned separator should remove more than 95% or more of the fine stuff.
I would agree that a separator would be best...but if I have a 10" intake to the impellers, I would figure I would need a 8 - 10" separator before that so that I would not loose air flow, correct?
I have not seen anything you can buy that big (as far as a cyclone separator that I could add the Thien to.
Any ideas?
Can you post more pictures of the intake section ? How many hoses can you connect ? What are the hose diameters ?
right now it has a cap on the 10" opening with 5- 5" hose outlets. When I move to my permanent shop, it will have a 10 hard pipe out of it running to the shop equipment, reducing as it goes (this part has not been calculated yet as my shop is not built yet).
I put a thien baffle in a 2 hp grizzly like what you are talking about but did not reduce the air to the filter. It did help with filter clog and did not seem to reduce air flow. I then made a thien tophat that went before the blower. It caught more dust but had a 40 % reduction in air flow. I than upgraded to a clear vue 5hp with a 16" impeller. I still was not happy with the reduction in air flow. So I went to the full clear vue cyclone. Result is that the clear vue cyclone is much better at reducing less air flow and I think base on my visual that it catches more dust.
You didn't state what size impeller you have but based clear vue 15" for 6" pipe and 16" for 8" pipe. You can reduce your 10 " to 6" or 8".
Most motors spin at 3450 rpms regardless of hp so impeller size is needed.
it has a 15" metal impeller with a 5hp motor. I seem to read somewhere (cannot find it again) where if produced 2400cfm.
I like the Clear Vue cyclone but it is only 8" intake/exit so I would loose some airflow. I am not an expert but reducing it would reduce air flow..just not sure how much.
I am considering going to a local fab shop and having one made. Any ideas on what the design should be...a metal cyclone with a thien baffle built in??
Leland
I am far from an expert also, but at 2400 cfm you need to reduce it to 6" you do not have the impeller or hp to support a 10" or 8" in a two stage DC. I think if you want to go with a two stage you be best to buy the clear vue cyclone 6" model. You might call clear vue and ask.
I may be getting off topic a bit but I think this is important. CFM and FPM (feet per minute) are not the same. Duct sizing, horsepower of motor and impeller size/design will dictate how much air you will move. Typically, the impeller/HP combo you are stating should use a 6" duct with ZERO reduction from your trunk down to the tool. This means you may need to modify or build new ports on your tools. Reducing that size will decrease efficiency as well as increasing the duct size. 350-450 CFM will collect the chips and lighter stuff but will not really grab the fine dust which is what can kill you from long exposure. 1000 CFM with 4000 or so FPM of air speed is best. Think that's absurd ? Some do. Think of it this way, wet your finger and hold it out away from your mouth at arm's length. Now blow on it. Feel the air ? Probably. Now do the opposite. Wet your finger and hold to same distance. Now suck in. You probably can't feel the air around your finger rushing by. This is because blowing the air can be directed and concentrated to a point. Pulling air away from an object is harder because we're pulling that air from a large volume (room). This is why the exhaust from your dust collector feels like a lot of air but standing the same distance away from the suction side really doesn't feel that forceful. Bottom line in my opinion is we all should do our homework and study hard about this. For me, I'll do just that before I finalize a design. Even then because I'm a novice I am sure to make mistakes. Hopefully they won't be costly and I can redesign when needed. Regardless of which separator you choose, it's the FINE dust you need to worry about.
Quote from: tommitytomtom on July 29, 2014, 04:53:58 PM
I may be getting off topic a bit but I think this is important. CFM and FPM (feet per minute) are not the same. Duct sizing, horsepower of motor and impeller size/design will dictate how much air you will move. Typically, the impeller/HP combo you are stating should use a 6" duct with ZERO reduction from your trunk down to the tool. This means you may need to modify or build new ports on your tools. Reducing that size will decrease efficiency as well as increasing the duct size. 350-450 CFM will collect the chips and lighter stuff but will not really grab the fine dust which is what can kill you from long exposure. 1000 CFM with 4000 or so FPM of air speed is best. Think that's absurd ? Some do. Think of it this way, wet your finger and hold it out away from your mouth at arm's length. Now blow on it. Feel the air ? Probably. Now do the opposite. Wet your finger and hold to same distance. Now suck in. You probably can't feel the air around your finger rushing by. This is because blowing the air can be directed and concentrated to a point. Pulling air away from an object is harder because we're pulling that air from a large volume (room). This is why the exhaust from your dust collector feels like a lot of air but standing the same distance away from the suction side really doesn't feel that forceful. Bottom line in my opinion is we all should do our homework and study hard about this. For me, I'll do just that before I finalize a design. Even then because I'm a novice I am sure to make mistakes. Hopefully they won't be costly and I can redesign when needed. Regardless of which separator you choose, it's the FINE dust you need to worry about.
I'm afraid I don't agree w/ most of this, it seems to be pretty much what BP preaches. The reality is, the finer the dust, the easier to entrain (in an airstream).
My response to the above post would steer even further from the original topic. Bottom line in my opinion is to put a better separator in front of the impeller whether that be a top hat or other. The OP's question was if a modification of his collector would work. I don't think it will because his filters are clogging up now. Restricting the feed to the filters with a smaller 3" pipe will not work. I also think the 10" inlet pipe is not correct.
I wouldn't hesitate to add baffles, just up-size that 3" pipe to the filter to 6" or 8".
Yes. I'm interested to see as well. Show us some pics too please.
On the 240 degree cutout, where should it be orientated as to relation to the incoming air flow?
And I will upgrade to a 6 or 8" opening...I currently have a 8" opening but no pipe..would it be best to have a hose/pipe and if so how far down should it protrude?
the cutout 240 degree ends where the dust comes in or the non cut out part starts just below where the dust comes in.
I not sure now what you are making. There are two thien things you could try.
1. An internal baffle which is just one piece of wood (240 cut out ) in your machine...This will improve dust getting to your filter. How much I am not sure but wild guess; half. The good thing is that very little change in air flow.
2. Build a top hat: Which I think you are talking about because you asked how far a pipe should protrude. I would stay with the 8" from the blower to the tophat but switch to 6" for dust duct. 8" pipe should protrude about 2/3 of the way into the tophat. You might read here about retired2 build. Mind you will see your 2400 cfms drop to 1450 plus or minus but your filter will see little dust at all.