J. Phil Thien's Projects

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 17, 2020, 03:15:50 PM

Quote from: retired2 on June 17, 2020, 02:17:51 PM
And if you are really interested in improving the performance of that separator, cut a slice off that inlet elbow and get on with it!

Nothing is being caught under the pipe r2, so why cut the pipe?

Alternatively, would increasing the height between the pipe bottom and the lower disc be satisfactory, say by 0.5"?

Raise the pipe or slice it off, either works.  And you do it not just to eliminate clogs, but to help smooth out the air stream. 

I would not recommend beveling the end of the drop slot, knife-like edges grab waste material and hang on to it.  This is where clogs start.  I would recommend you round-over the learning edge and make it as smooth as you can.

And if you are really interested in improving the performance of that separator, cut a slice off that inlet elbow and get on with it!

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 17, 2020, 04:55:40 AM

Quote from: retired2 on June 16, 2020, 07:48:51 PM

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 16, 2020, 06:01:49 PM

Quote from: retired2 on June 16, 2020, 05:51:24 PM
I thought you asked for a photo of the underside of my baffle?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm curious about the dust patterns on the underside of the baffle after it's been in use, not prior. I am interested in seeing what they look like on your top hat version.

Never had a reason to look.  I'm more interested in seeing what is in the waste drum.

Well, thanks for considering my request anyway.

The underside of my baffle is not in plain view even whenI pull the waste drum out for emptying.  I need to get down on my knees and look up with a flash light.  At age 75, I don?t   do that unless there is a reason to, but next time I empty the drum, I?ll look.  Not sure how long that will be since I am not doing work in the shop these days due to unrelated medical treatments.

Your last set of photos that includes the one "continued fetch......"  should be all the evidence you need to trim off some of the bottom of the inlet elbow.  There is still waste accumulating there, and that is how clogs start.  That elbow causes turbulance even before clogs start, but attached waste makes it worse.  So, with the end of the drop slot just behind this turbulance it is not surprising that waste would start clinging to the end of the drop slot.  None of you photos give me a good view of the ends of the drop slots, but from what I can see they are pretty blunt.  The should be nicely rounded looking down on them and then the top and bottom surfaces should be rounded at the end of the slot, not sharp corners anywhere.

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 16, 2020, 06:04:39 PM

Quote from: retired2 on June 16, 2020, 05:51:24 PM
The shavings from a hand plane and a power planer have the same problematic features, and separators don't know the difference.  In fact, the shavings from a hand plane are probably worse.

Agreed. I just wasn't seriously planning on hooking up an intake hose connected to my Stanley No. 4 hand plane; however, that said, I must confess of staging something akin to that as a cartoon of sorts! LOL  ;D

I assumed you were going to vacuum the shavings from the floor and your workbench.  If not, I'm not sure why you are testing your separator with that kind of waste..

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 16, 2020, 06:01:49 PM

Quote from: retired2 on June 16, 2020, 05:51:24 PM
I thought you asked for a photo of the underside of my baffle?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm curious about the dust patterns on the underside of the baffle after it's been in use, not prior. I am interested in seeing what they look like on your top hat version.

Never had a reason to look.  I'm more interested in seeing what is in the waste drum.

Shop vacs (and Dysons) have high static pressure and low volume.  Dust Collectors, by comparison have low static pressure and high volume.  Sometimes the ideal solution is both, but there are many tools and machining operations that a shop vac and its low CFM will just not do the job.

I thought you asked for a photo of the underside of my baffle?  That photo is in the first group of construction photos in the link I sent you.

The shavings from a hand plane and a power planer have the same problematic features, and separators don't know the difference.  In fact, the shavings from a hand plane are probably worse.

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=563.0

You are too focused on the photo of Phil?s early separator.  People don?t typically build shop vac separators for planer applications.  Attached to a planer, Phil?s separator would clog just like yours.  Top hat designs were developed because they solve remove the  inlet pipe from the waste stream.  I?m sure Phil would be giving you the same advice I have. 

What many people have done to avoid rebuilding their separator is just take a slice off the bottom of the elbow.  Run it through your band saw if you?ve got one.  Start with a small slice and keep increasing it till it works.

Oh, another thing I think is troublesome are the spoked ribs under your baffle. The air under the baffle should spin smoothly.  The spokes create turbulence that could adversely effect the performance of the drop slot.

Your design will work with smaller waste but not planer shavings.  Your not the first person to discover this problem, it has been discussed more than once.

If the schematic is an accurate representation or your build, then it is pretty obvious why you had a major failure.  If the inlet elbow sits against or even close to the baffle, the shavings will quickly pile up behind that elbow and cause a clog.  The photo of your "major" clog tends to confirm that assessment, there is a pile of shavings clogged up behind the elbow.  There needs to be space between that elbow and the separator floor (baffle) to allow shavings to circulate until they are removed by the drop slot.

Quote from: Kelly Bellis on June 03, 2020, 04:38:35 PM

Quote from: retired2 on May 30, 2020, 06:23:14 AM
... search Cincinnati Fan or Cincinnati Blowers.

Using this forum's search tool box in the upper right corner, the only search result on this forum found was this thread. Maybe I messed up? However, in doing a Google search using cincinnati site:http://www.jpthien.com netted several interesting results which I had to stop reading (the trials of DennisCA in "Planned dust collection system") in order to finish this post.

I spelled Cincinnati wrong in at least one post, maybe all of them.   So, if you had spelled it as poory as I did, "Search" would have found this comment:

"Here is a little gem from a Cincinnatti Fan engineering document:

Duct Inlet Spin
"A major cause of reduced fan performance is an inlet duct connection that produces a spin or pre-rotation of the air entering the fan inlet.  Inlet spin in the same direction of the fan wheel will reduce air volume and pressure ratings.  Inlet spin in the opposite direction of the fan rotation will substantially increase the motor horsepower requirements.  An ideal inlet condition is one which allows the air to enter the fan axially and evenly without spin in either direction."
 
Also, do a search on "pre-rotation", that will lead you to some interesting discussions on the subject. 

Do a search on Coriolis effect.  What you will find is you?ve spent too much time thinking about it! 

With regard to air direction relative to impeller rotation, with or against both have a negative effect, different, but negative.  I must have posted Cincinnati Fan?s engineering document in this subject a hundred times.  If you want to read it search Cincinnati Fan or Cincinnati Blowers.

The design I remember had a few baffles to redirect the exhaust air several times before it hit a large filter at the bottom of the door.  The airways were large enough that it did not creat any back pressure on the blower.