J. Phil Thien's Projects

Another busy day today with this project.  I got 95% of my materials delivered.  Unfortunately, I let the folks at Penn State talk me out of the bellmouth I had originally ordered and they sent me a bellmouth designed for one of their products.  Sadly, what they sent will not work with this application, so that has set me back at least a week.

While I wait, I decided to work on a plenum to direct the exhaust air.  I wanted to be able to 'see' if there is anything getting past the Thien separator and also be able to remove any such items from the plenum.  So, I came up with a box that incorporates a Plexiglas window.  The section with the window is easy to remove in case I ever need to clean out the box.  Pictures below.  BTW, the plenum has three large openings to the outside that are covered with screened louvers. 

I am planning on using a couple of rivets to hold the major pipe components.  Based on various comments, I think that might be better than screws.

I picked up all the pipe from HD online.  Most is 26 gauge, and the wyes are reverse flow, so that makes life easier.  Can't imagine I could have done this any cheaper with PVC.

John,
Thank you, if the GE adhesive does not work, I'll look into your suggestion.

I should be continuing the build tomorrow if UPS shows up as scheduled.  Today I built my air straightener.  I decided to make it a separate section in order to offer me flexibility of positioning along the DC to Thien baffle connection.

I used two fluorescent bulb protectors from Lowes, different sizes allowed a tight fit in the 6" pipe.

Since I didn't know the diameter of the bellmouth, I have not cut out the circle on the top section.  As soon as it gets here, I can cut out the top and install the bellmouth and pipe.

My plan is to make a cut out like retired2 did on his build.  Wide enough to allow the entire bellmouth to fit and a top section screwed to the top to seal the seam.  This should allow ample space for making changes etc.

I will also be coming up with some sort of air straightener since I intentionally made the Thien collector in a manner that rotates counter to the DC rotation. This, after studying the various publications on air rotation effects on CFM and horsepower.

Adhesive cured and it certainly seems like it will be successful.  Got a chance to mount the new Jet DC-1100VX. Now will have to wait for the bellmouth and pipe to arrive this coming week.  I purchased all my pipe from Home Depot.  I had to order all of it since I opted for the heavier gauge stuff rather than what they have in the store.  Pricing was the best I could find compared to waste PVC or dedicated DC pipe.

Quote from: tvman44 on August 31, 2013, 06:28:55 PM
Man that is big, can't wait for the efficiency reports.

Yes it is. Turned out bigger than I thought, but it only uses up vertical space, so not a big deal.  The shape of the inlet forces you into at least a 10" plus height.  This one is about 19" in height.

I'm not sure how to measure the 'efficiency', but I'll be happy if it does the job.  Unless I end up with air leaks, it should work well based on the results of other builds.

Once I get it up and running I'll post some impressions.

A few shots of the final product as it cures.....

Almost done with the build.  Took a few days, but I am hoping it was worth the effort.  I am waiting for the bellmouth and 6" pipe to arrive so I can cut the holes on the top section. Otherwise, I am nearly done.

The true test will come when I hook it up and figure out if I have any air leaks.  I am very optimistic the adhesive will keep an air tight seal all around.  At some point, I will finish painting, but for now, it is in the shop waiting for the adhesive to cure. The adhesive is 'cloudy' when applied, but dries transparent when cured. 

Today I tested the GE adhesive I mentioned in a previous post.  My hope is to just adhere the acrylic cylinder to the support structure in order to avoid mechanical fasteners.  I tested the adhesive with both MDF and plywood.

The GE adhesive is perfect for this application.  After just 4 hours of drying, not even the recommended 12 hours of curing, I could not remove either MDF or plywood from the acrylic sheet.  I used relatively large pieces of scrap, so I had plenty of leverage.  I cannot remove either piece and suspect the acrylic would break apart before the glue would fail.  The adhesive also remains rather pliable, which is an added bonus.

Exactly what I'm hoping for and it seems what all the tall chambers seem to validate.  This project is taking longer than I expected, but figured I'd do it right the first time.

Bulldog8, glad to hear the silicone has worded to keep things air tight bonding the two distinct surfaces.  I am also trying to avoid any fasteners that can either crack the acrylic or disturb airflow unnecessarily.

Thank  you for all the tips.  BTW, your video on your tall version was one of those that influenced me to start off with a tall version.  I hope you are still getting good 'flines' filtering with that setup. Although I will be porting to the outside, I still don't want a lot of large chips thrown outdoors. 

Quote from: tvman44 on August 28, 2013, 06:21:13 PM
I would think making the top hat that tall would improve the collection of fines, would be curious to find out how it functions, I  would like to redo one of my collectors to try and improve fine collection and thinking about making a tall top hat, just had not considered that tall. :)

My decision to make it taller than the usual 6" or so was due to several that I saw here and on other sites that were taller.  The videos I saw on youtube with tall top hats show a really well defined cyclone action all the way to the baffle opening, so I figured I'd try it.  My minimum height would need to be 10" since that is the height of the rectangular opening on the inlet. 

I used the very scientific method of just splitting the sheet of acrylic in half, about 18" and just figured I'd use that.  It should provide about 8" below the inlet of continuous cylindrical area for the vortex. 

I am going to try very hard to minimize any 'final' adhesion or permanent attachments that will prevent me from re-working the design in case it does not work as I imagine. 

Bulldog8, thank you. I see what you did now.  How did you adhere the lexan or acrylic to the wood structure?

Decided to jump right in so will chronicle the project here.  If any of you have suggestions that might improve things, please don't hesitate to let me know.  I am trying to use the a combination of the great ideas others have suggested.

The Thien baffle will be taller than usual, made of acrylic sides, MDF for top, bottom and support.  6" inlet round to rectangular as explained in my previous post.  The 6" outlet to the DC will have a bellmouth and although I was going t order the one used by 'retired2', I may be going with another option after talking with the folks at Penn State Industries.

Trash can is 44 gal. Brute plastic container and I plan on putting an acrylic window on it so I can monitor fill level.

First picture is the baffle, built into the bottom section.  In order to make it thinner than the 3/4" MDF, I just used my router to make the baffle itself thinner.  This is just after initial cutting.

Second is the Acrylic sheet I will be using, roughly 18" tall. I placed it outside to let the sun warm it up and hope it will retain a tubular shape.

Finally is the inside of the top section with a slot to receive the top of the Acrylic.

Bulldog 8, thank you.  I actually have been following your posts and am looking at making something similar to your design in terms of height and a rectangular inlet. For the inlet, I found a Galvanized Sheet Metal Range Hood Straight Boot Adapter in home depot. It has a 6" inlet that converts to a 3.25" x 10" slot.  Area remains roughly the same, so I am hoping it works.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Speedi-Products-3-25-in-x-10-in-x-6-in-Galvanized-Sheet-Metal-Range-Hood-Straight-Boot-Adapter-SM-RH3106-SB/202907196

I believe you also used plastic for your separator walls.  How did you attach the ends to each other in order to complete the tube?  I am hoping to stay away from using screws due to the experience of some builders who ran into cracking etc.

Right now I am planning on using a GE product made for adhering acrylic and lexan.  My current plan is to simply overlap the acrylic by a couple of inches.  This should provide a good amount of surface area for adhesion. I am hoping the airflow will not be disturbed too much.

I need to figure out if that GE glue will work on plastic adhering to MDF or wood. This is the silicone adhesive, which GE says it works on Lexan, acrylic and metal, which should be perfect for our application. I did see a youtube video of a comparison of plastic adhesives and this one was really strong.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-10-oz-Silicone-Cartridge-GE-55/202038071?keyword=ge+silicone+sealant+plastic

Quote from: tvman44 on August 27, 2013, 06:11:31 PM
Not first hand info but I have seen posted on this forum more than once thinner is better. :)

I had gathered the same.  I was hoping Phil might comment since he is the authority on the subject.