J. Phil Thien's Projects

any possibility of routing a small grove for the polycarbonate to sit in and put a small bead of caulk/silicone in the grove to seal things? This was my thought during my design phase which is still in progress.

The tapper was a concern and at first I thought I had a space issue and the taper would solve the space issue. Very near the end of the design last night I measured the distance between the rafters and discovered that it is 22 1/2 inches. I did include this measurement in my post but it was a last minute update and I did not really consider the possibility of changing and replacing the tapper unit with a cylinder. After rethinking (boy is this hard!) I can easily use a cylinder in that this would eliminate any possible issues with the tapper this is the route I will go. That being said following are my current plans.

• First build a unit for my shop vac. This "should be" much quicker and allow me to get a unit in place.
• I can then build another unit and just place it on top of a Brute garbage can, as others have done. This will be much faster than the attic mount.
• Assuming I still want to do the attic mount I can now pursue it at a much slower pace.

BTW Doug, I've utilized many of the ideas from your postings, great work!

OK I think I've completed the rough design (see below) and would appreciate feedback.  In the following I just added the parts to collect the dust from the TopHat. Rather than a cylinder I made a box that tapers down on all sides  to a 7" opening and then attached a 6" port. From there I drop down with a 6" pipe to a round tub. I could have put a cylinder at the top just under the TopHat but my space is constrained, I only have a max of about 30 inches from the bottom side of the roof to the top of the ceiling joist. If I allow

• 2" between the top of the motor and the bottom of the roof,
• 16" for the motor and impeller unit
• 4" as an estimate for the connection between the impeller input and the TopHat
• 7" for the TopHat
• This puts me at 29" which is almost on top of the joist.

Currently I have the TopHat width at almost 23 1/2" inches and the section below it must fit between the ceiling joist (I just measured and I have 22 1/2" between the joist) thus I'm in trouble with the current width. Decreasing the width of the TopHat should not be an issue, because I used square top and bottom I added a little to each side. Once I fit between the ceiling joist I can cut a hole in the ceiling, frame it in and allow whatever to extend down to the container at the bottom.

Questions:

• What is the smallest dia I can make the TopHat and still use 6" pipes? I think I'm OK with the current dia but just for backup.
• Is using a sq tapered box to catch the dust rather than a cylinder going to create problems? I can use a cylinder if the dia to the outside is no more than 22 1/2".
• The total drop for the dust from the TopHat bottom to the bottom of the container will be about 11', is this an issue?

Quote from: Peter on March 14, 2012, 11:11:59 AM
jgt: the SketchUp feature you mention is in View: Component Edit: Hide Rest of Model and/or Hide Similar Components

Very useful feature.

Super thanks!

I just realized (brain damage prevented this flash) that I can install the motor/impeller and TopHat in the attic area of my garage. In the ceiling area I have about 33 inches of space between the garage ceiling 2x4 joist and the roof 2x6 joist. The insulation in my house is a foam spray and was applied to the underside of the roof. The house is a Santa Fe design and the near flat roof is highest at the front of my garage with a gentle downward slope as the roof line goes to the back of the garage.  This will put most of my duct run in the attic area. With this thought my entire design changes. In the design in the previous post I was going to use Plexiglas for the sides but this will be wasted. If I want to be cute with the design I could use Plexiglas for the bottom of the TopHat and also install Plexiglas in the ceiling below the TopHat. This would allow me to easily see the dust action in the TopHat but I will admit this maybe overkill!

I've been playing with SketchUp and came up with the following so far. Any suggestion or questions? I realize that some of the items are not exactly to scale but this will be adjusted with a better model or I just may live with the fact that it is not 100% correct.

OK I think I'm making progress with my SketchUp model and would appreciate any feedback and suggestions, if you have SketchUp please download the SketchUp file and review. I know that it is not complete and most likely I made some mistakes thus I'm open. At this point I'm just tired and need to get some sleep!

In the picture, the unit on the left. Cut the three pipes, install extensions to raise the height to allow a straight shot from the impeller output. I'm assuming you want to install a filter on it. Otherwise as Phil suggested, just scratch it.

Peter, yes please post the SketchUp.

I've started to recreate my SketchUp for my Thien TopHat which of course is a combination of drawings I've found and ideas within this forum. A YouTube posting by PitBull has also been super helpful.

Peter, one of the things you did in your drawing has me stumped and would like to know how you did it. When I double-click on a component everything disappears except that component. Then when I click anywhere other than on that component everything reappears. NEAT!

My Grizzly G1029Z2 2 HP Dust Collector has a 6" input but the output of the 12 3/4" impeller is reduced to 5". Per Grizzly this was done to increase the speed of the air but I did see another DC on their site that was very similar with a 6" output pipe.

I'm in the early stage of shop setup and decided make the DC the first priority. I've attached a SketchUp image and the SketchUp model. Ops, the SketchUp file exceeds the size allowed by the forum.

On the Grizzly site I saw a stand for a setup that would be easy to recreate with the TopHat and the DC I currently have, image has been included. This would solve several issue for me

• Allow me to easily route the pipe near my 10' ceiling to feed all of my wood tools.
• Use the same amount of floor space currently used by my current unit.
• Simplify the overall design

Quote from: Peter on March 12, 2012, 03:34:13 PM
First, I will take full blame for the error in the posted sketch: I am Thom Porterfield. My middle name is Peter. :)

Second, that sketch came from my original design that used 6"? duct and was otherwise full of flaws. When I resized my system to 5"?, I neglected to change the note on the inlet duct. In my current design the transition goes from 5"? to a 7.25" x 3" rectangle. I believe retired2's complaint is covered by this change. My apologies to the group.

Peter, much thanks for the update. In another post I think I saw one from you stating that you were going to build another TopHat with 6" ports. Did you do this, do you have the SketchUp model?

Peter, thanks for the update. Why did you change from 6" to 5"?

I just talked to a rep from Curbell (see http://www.curbellplastics.com) he stated that to cold roll PETG you would have to use 1/8" thick or less and he recommended polycarbonate because the PETG would turn yellow over time.

I've see other units that people have made with clear plastic of some type. I think it best to contact them and see what their procedure was and what they suggest.

retired2 - by chance do you have a SketchUp model of your unit?

Quote from: retired2 on March 12, 2012, 08:05:57 AM
The transition piece of in this sketch is poorly designed.  As a minimum, the area of the rectangular end should equal the area of the round end, and better yet, the area of the rectangular end should be 10% greater than the round end.  The design as shown creates a entry restriciton and simply adds to the losses created by the separator.

The second small rectangular metal piece shown in the sketch is an unneccessary detail, unless you simply want to line wood surfaces with metal.  This assumes the wood inlet dimensions match the dimensions of the rectangular end of the transition piece.  It may be a little more clear by looking at the construction photos of my build.

I agree that the transition is not good and this is one of the things I'll modify.

What is the URL of your post with the construction photos. I looked but could not find it.....

For the past few weeks I've been researching Cyclone Dust Collectors and was focused on the Bill Pentz model to use with my Grizzly G1029Z2 2 HP Dust Collector, while trying to create my SketchUp model of everything I encountered the Thien TopHat and Cyclone Separator Lid and because it is MUCH simpler I've decided to change but I do have a few questions.

• Why not use the TopHat for the big DC and the smaller shop vac, e.g. possibly a smaller version for the shop vac? For my big DC I will be using 6" pipe and for the smaller shop vac I thinking of using 4" with reducing adapters to work with all of my small hoses.
• Are any of the measurements in the TopHat that are critical or any ratios I need to keep in mind? The only thing I've seen is possibly the cutout in the baffle and this seems to have a range that is acceptable.
• When creating a ShetchUp of my pland when possible I use an existing SketchUp model (tools, or whatever I need) and found a great TopHat model by Tom Porterfield and after viewing a posting by rawdawgs50 on YouTube I'll modify the inlet in Tom's model to duplicate what rawdawgs50 did.
• Is the distance between the top and baffle critical, for one of my units I'll use 6" pipe and the other I'll use 4" pipe.
• For those with a big DC with the TopHat, how often do you change the filter?
• Any thoughts on sound reduction?