J. Phil Thien's Projects

BradD - Thanks for the info on DesignCad 3D Max. In the past I used Autocad only because my brother was using it and when I built my house the guy creating my house plans used Autocad. Thus my knowledge is super limited however I was able to show the guy creating my house plans a lot that he did not know.

I looked at DesignCad 3D Max and they offer a student discount (about 85% off) and as an old guy taking advanced woodworking at my local college I qualify. In that this makes it super cheap I may take a look at it however SketchUp has served my needs and I've found a bunch of add-ins that make it super useful some are free, some a small fee and some are super expensive. I stay away from the super expensive. I'm NOT an expert with SketchUp but is has been a great tool. It, and I'm sure any drawing tool, forces one to think things through.

Quote from: BradD on February 17, 2014, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: tvman44 on February 17, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
What program do I need to open a .dxf file?

Most CAD programs will work. I'm don't know for sure, but Google Sketchup might work, and it's free.

Also try googling "dxf viewer".

Can anyone else help tvman44?

Brad

Sketchup will work. click File > Import > drill down to where the file is located. After loading the file click Save or Save As and save the file.

IrfanView will also work but you may need a plug-in which will be identified when you open the file.

AudCad will work - there are free versions you can find on the web.

QuoteMy plan is to have the blower assy. Elevated level to the HF collector for short\straight connection as many others have done. And the Tophat inches below the blower and on top of the Rockler can for a short\straight connection as well.

I infer you want to mount the motor assembly similar to what is in my image. I used a block-n-tackle to lift and place the unit.
In my case my Grizzly intake on the impeller was slightly smaller than 6" thus I had to split a 6" pipe along the length of the pipe and then glue the seam.

I did not use a bellmouth thus I cannot give you any advice here.

QuoteSecond question, I see everyone running their line-in (inlet) to the TH straight. I was thinking of having the inlet chamber to curve along and follow the outside of the TH about 1\4 it's outside distance prior to merging with the air\dust inside. My thinking is this might be less turbulent mixing while having the incoming dust along the outer wall prior to entering the chamber for hopefully a quicker and more efficient separation.  What do you think?

As you can see I ran my connection straight into the TH and I have had zero problems with it.

QuoteLast question. I am planning on eliminating the collection bag below the separator. My thought is to use a internal Thein baffle and below that build a small collection box\diverter with a 2 1\2 hose attachment. That hose would connect to a Wye fitting to go back into the Thein Collector for another trip around and hopfully settle in the Rockler can below the TH.

The only reason I kept the bottom and top bag is because that is the way mine was in the original setup. I plan to replace the top bag with a ye and you are planning. Having over-filled my can I ended up dumping about 2" of dust in the bottom bag thus I think I will replace that bag with a clear plastic bag so I can see what is in it. Until I over-filled my collector can (currently a 20 gal Brute, will be modified and replaced with a 32 gal Brute) I had almost zero in the lower bag.

I need to see a drawing to fully understand you possible setup.

As you can see I used Plexiglas for the side of my TH. If I were to do it again I'd also use Plexiglas on the top and bottom just so I could see what is going on. It is rather therapeutic (for me) seeing the TH in action.   :-*

Also if I were doing it again I'd have more distance between the top and bottom of the TH, currently I have about 6". Some  have reported better separation by having more distance, however I have picked up about 2 gal of dust as fast as it can be sucked up and it seems to be working great. 

TX_Lenador - Great solution for the lift. I'm going to use your idea on some other tools. As you can see in my image in the previous post currently I do not have a lift. Because my platform is metal I'm going to use a Lazy-Susan and the plate will be mounted on a threaded rod that was then end of a weight-lifting bench press rod. This is a very coarse threaded rod thus it will move up and down rather quickly.

TX_Lenador
How do you raise and lower the Brute?
It looks like the Brute is flush with the bottom of the Tophat, is this the case?

One concern I have for your setup is that if the Brute is full you will fill your super nice filter.  Currently I don't have a filter on the output of my current build but I did over fill the small 20 gal Brute and quickly ended up with a couple of inches of saw dust in the bottom bag on the left.

Quick update - I've exchanged a lot of emails with Robert and we think we have a solution for his unit and my setup. The bad news is that I'm super backed up with higher priority projects thus this will be on hold for a while. I'll update as I make progress.

Senior moment on my end - My unit is a 2 HP. I think the bearings are sealed and I don't think it really makes any difference what position they are put in. However I could be wrong.  :-\  If I'm wrong I will have a major modification. I was attempting to avoid as many bends as possible. Currently it is working great.

With the Tophat I'd suggest that you don't need the double set of bags on your output and would block one of the outputs with a board or piece of metal.

Following is the current product of my efforts. I have a few mistakes and will be modifying my unit in the near future. I used the upper/lower bags on the output just because I had them on the original unit. On the right side I have a metal ring on the bottom of the tophat, currently there is not enough room to slide a 32 gal Brute under thus currently I'm limited to a 20 gal Brute (this is MUCH TOO SMALL).  I fear that the 55 gal drums would be a royal pain to empty. I think you will be really surprised how quickly they will be filled. I just completed a 60" x 32" reloading bench top for my neighbor that I made from scrap 2x4 and by the time I completed the joining, planning, and sawing I had about 60 gal of dust. Most of this was done in one day. 

As you can see my unit is on wheels thus allowing me to easily move it in my double-car garage. As I connect to different tools I finding myself not happy with the portable aspects and I'm thinking of rebuilding and making it fixed this of course means I need to install duct pipes (this I was trying to avoid).

When I make the modification for the 32 gal Brute I will install a heavy duty plastic bag (I get them from CostCo) and to keep the bag from sucking up I will get a piece of laminate flooring, cut it so it will be in a circle all the way around the inside of the plastic bag and top-to-bottom of the Brute. When the bag is full I can easily remove the laminate, seal the bag and remove it with no almost dust. Currently when I remove the 20 gal Brute I have to empty it either into the bag I will use for the 32 gal Brute or just dump into the city trash container. Either way with this method I get a lot of dust flying.  :-[

Another mod I want to make is automatic shut-off when the collector can is full. With my first real usage with my current setup I was working with the planner and noticed that the tophat was full which meant the can was stuffed. Gee what a mess this made.

On my Grizzly the output of the impeller is connected to the dust bags via a flex hose. This flex hose was part of the original unit, I just shortened it to make the connection between the two.

OK I could not get all three pic in the previous post

Following is my Grizzly 3 HP mounted on top of the TopHat. The intake on the impeller was slightly less than any 6" pipe and I could find a good fit. I took a 6" PVC, split one side, removed the amount I needed to fit the impeller intake, glued the seam and used a metal band to clamp it to the impeller intake. To help ensure an air-tight  fit on the impeller intake I put a couple of layers of Duck Tape on the impeller intake before sliding the pipe on.

Before I put the pipe on the impeller I used it to draw the circle for the cutout in the top of the TopHat.

I used a block and tackle to lift the motor and impeller and placed it on top of the TopHat. The motor and impeller was much to heavy for me to lift.

I used a 2x4 and 4x4 to support the motor/impeller on top of the Thien and on the left side of the motor/impeller you can see it bolted to 3/4" plywood which is bolted to 2" angle iron.

Might I suggest that a 55 GAL container is too large. When full it might be too heavy especially as you get older. I currently have a 20 GAL Brute and that is TOO small and will be modifying to fit a 32 GAL Brute. Following is my current unit, 3HP Grizzly and I'm using 4" intake so far for my shop this has been great. When I first fired it up I had a HUGE pile of dust under my table saw and it sucked it up with no issues.

Take a look at the image of my current unit at http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1089.msg5905#msg5905 let me know if you are interested in more details.

I've looked in the forum and was not able to find any post regarding an automatic shut off when the DC can is full. I've been playing with my TopHat for what seems like forever and finally got all working.

First I mus say it works GREAT. As you can see I draw the air (saw dust) through the Tophat and the through the impeller. When I first got the Grizzly I sucked up a couple of things (bolt and wood block) and did not like the idea that large stuff could damage the impeller or worst yet create an explosion. Thus I went to pains to mount the impeller unint on top of the TopHat.

My original thought was to use a plastic bag in place of the Brute can but when I turned on the DC the bag got sucked up. I was going to use a 32 gal Brute but with the current design there is not enough clearance thus I used a 20 gal Brute.

Two things wrong with the 20 gal Brute

• 20 Gal is TOO SMALL
• I cannot find a bag that will fit inside the can

I plan to modify the unit and raise both sides thus allowing me to use a 32 gal Brute, The ring I have on the underside of the TopHat is large enough for the 32 gal Brute.

Currently I just use a couple of wedges to raise the Brute, this will be replaced by a Lazy-Susan on a threaded rod to easily raise the can.

As you can see the entire unit is on wheels, my first thought was because I'm using this in my garage I want all of my shop tools (well most of them anyway) on wheels and I can then wheel the DC to the tool I'm using, connect it and then turn it on. Now that I've done that a few times I don't like this idea, as I bounce between the various tools it is a bit of a pain to be disconnecting something and then connecting to another tool. This mod is somewhere in the future.

To make the unit more fixed will require installing pipes to the various locations in my garage. I need to think about this and optimize the locations. I could still use the flex hose from the fixed points to the various tools. My table saw and joiner are fixed at this time (I map put a base on the joiner but I'm also thinking of replacing the joiner and my planer with the Hammer A1 Jointer/Planer combo).

The other neat thing I'd like to install are the controls to turn on the DC when I turn on a tool.

All that aside I ran into an issue when joining and planing a bunch of 2x4s. In the image if you look at the TopHat on the right side you can see that I used Plexiglas and I can easily see the TopHat in action (yea). Not thinking  far enough ahead I quickly overfilled the Brute and the sawdust also filled the Tophat and then the sawdust went directly into the bags on the left side of the image.

Thus I'd like to install a sensor that will shut off the unit when the can is full. Robert R. Payne makes a really neat Bin Sensor System (see http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Bullentin/showthread.php?t=1272) but it only works with the Clear Vue Cyclones and he thinks that if I install the LED units under the Tophat the dust dropping down into the Brute will trip the control and shut the DC off.

Any suggestions for the sensor?

Currently I have the separator firmly attached to the vertical angle iron plus the Grizzly impeller (on top of the separator) is connected via a hose to the bags on the right. I've been considering something like the lift at http://woodgears.ca/reader/saw_lift.html and http://woodgears.ca/mobile_base/table_saw.html. This week I'm super busy with other things thus it will be the weekend before I can possibly do anything.

I'm really excited about the possibility of using the 20 gal Brute (thanks WayTooLate ), it will save me a lot of work with the redesign. If the redesign gets too extensive I may do something like dan4307 (see http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=992.0) did. Basically he did the same as I did using a much simpler design.

OK I picked up a Brute 20 gal and it just fits under the ring thus I will not be able to use the scissor jack as dabullseye  did.

WayTooLate -  the use of a 20 gal Brute would be MUCH simpler for me to implement. I need to go by Lowes and pick one up and give it a try. In that I'm an old fart with a heart condition I don't want something that is too heavy. I currently use the Brute 32 gal with a big plastic bag for general trash in the shop and so far this has not created a problem for me but then again I'm not filling it with heavy stuff.