J. Phil Thien's Projects

I failed to mention that the insulation in my attic is a spray foam and it was applied to the underside roof. Thus when I route the pipe in this area I'm not being hindered by glass insulation.

I converted a Grizzly 2HP and currently find it acceptable for my shop. As long as you are connecting directly to one tool your unit "should" work but you are well below the suggested 1000 CFM min. Currently my conversion is a portable unit (see http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1137.0) for an image (the yellow framed unit). Also I'm not really happy with the idea of the portable unit and will be installing fixed pipes (see http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1168.0) in the future. At first I thought the portable unit would answer my DC issues, it does work OK it is just a pain to be moving it around in my crowded shop and connecting to the exhaust of a tool. I have a flex pipe on my input thus this does limit the need to move the unit but the flex pipe is a great tripper. I've managed to not trip but have come close thus for safety I want to go to fixed runs that are out of the way.

One of my early attempts was to add the baffle to the bottom of my Grizzly intake as you are doing. I did not like the results and went with the external thien baffle. Perhaps I just did something wrong but I found a lot of dust on top of the Thien when it was part of the Grizzly intake.

BTW I've given up on the portable idea. After using it a bit it has turned out to be a royal pain (for me) shifting from one tool to another and tools and other stuff get in the way as I attempt to move it around in my shop. Part of the problem is that I'm a slob and very slow to clean up.

One of the issues you will encounter is when the Brute can gets full. I plan to install an automatic cutoff when the can gets full. I try to watch it and empty often but sometimes things creep up on me and the next thing I notice is that the can is full. With my unit I can see the overflow in my Thien (I have a clear plastic wall.)

If the seal between the Brute and the baffle is leaking this will result in another issue. I added some weather stripping in this area and now I have a very tight seal.

QuoteThere was an article in American Woodworker on building a central dust collection system that has been linked in many posts on this forum.  Unfortunately, all you can view now is a very abbreviated preview.  If you want to read it all you need to pay for it.  The gist of the article is that 5" pipe is all that is needed for most 1-1/2 HP and 2 HP DC systems.  It provides the air velocity needed for conveying woodworking waste, while keeping line losses low.  Obviously 6" lines would have lower losses, but it is not by very much.  Above 5" line losses become a case of rapidly diminishing returns

I think I found the link but currently American Woodworker is migration to PopularWoodworking.com and it appears that they are doing it in real-time which is resulting in a LOT of broken links. I have a PDF of most of the American Woodworker mags but cannot find the article in the 2010 issues. I'll try later.

BTW my Grizzly is a 2 HP unit.

Tks for the suggestion of the 5" pipe I'll compare the cost to the 6" PVC.

The X-treme tape is a really great idea, as you imply it is expensive but I think it would be well worth the expense especially for the total run. Lots of possible leaks.

QuoteSo, why are you putting the pipe in your attic?  That isn't going to make a big difference in noise.  All the noise comes from DC which you plan to enclose.

The pipe in the attic is just because it is much easier to run the pipe in the attic rather than the ceiling of my garage. I agree that the noise is from the DC and phase four will enclose the DC. I enclosed my air compressor last year and that reduced the noise level from 79 db to 63 db. Every 10 db drop cuts the noise by 1/2. I used an app on my phone to measure the noise level. I know that it is not measuring the high end correctly but at least it does give me a good indication of the level. My neighbor has some professional noise measuring equipment and I'll touch base with him for an accurate measurement.

Excellent idea on the RC, I agree this is a MUST! If you have a set of plans please let me know. I don't like the idea of it crapping out. It takes me forever to complete a project and I don't need one that will cycle back on me for more attention. :)

OK I've finally had it with my portable thien setup and have decided to route pipes in the attic area of my workshop. The roof over my garage/workshop is near flat and I have just over 3' of space between the garage ceiling and the actual roof. I plan to put the new unit in the right-front corner of the garage (where the red tool box is in the garage image). Initially I can just put the portable unit in this space and connect it to the pipes I plan to run in the attic area.

I'm attempting to solve two issues.

• I'm tired of moving the portable unit and connecting it to the tool I'm using
• I'm tired of the noise the DC motor makes

I plan to complete this project in several phases but I'd like to get as much of the planning in place before I start any work.

Phase One
Run Pipe in the attic area which presents the first question, e.g. should I run 4" or 6" pipe. The input to the Grizzly is very close to 6" (I had to modify a plastic pipe for the current fitting). I plan to use PVC. If I use 6" pipe my current thought is to make the drops from the attic pipe the same size and then reduce down to 4" for the blast gate and the run to the tool. Currently all of my tools have 4" ports for dust collection. The garage is about 28' x25'. I was thinking of running one continuous loop in the attic and if possible all bends would be made using 2-45 degree pipes rather than one 90 degree.

Phase Two
Build a new Thien baffle, if I use 6" pipe in the attic then a new unit will be required for the 6" input

Phase Three
Convert the Grizzly to utilize the new baffle

Phase Four
Enclose the system, Walls and doors to reduce the noise for the rest of the shop.

Please feel free to comment about any phase

bill, the above tips are excellent. I used Plexiglass for my wall, it was tough bending it and I over heated a couple of times which produced bubbles. As suggest the polycarbonate would most likely be better. I'd also suggest building the two-high. I've only gotten into trouble twice with my build.

• I don't have a sensor to tell me when the bin is full. I overfilled it and this makes for a mess.
• Along with general wood working I also turn wood. Most often when turning the wood comes off in large sawdust chunks, e.g. about 1/4". Recently the wood I was turning came off in long strings. When this was cleaned up with the vac the long strings got trapped in the Thien creating a blockage and I had to manually remove the blockage.

I could be way out on a limb but I don't think you will get the separation you are looking for, e.g. most of the dust will be stopped by your filter and not the Jet intake ring. I suggest that you replace the Jet intake ring with the Thien baffle.

Quote from: BernardNaish on December 19, 2014, 03:05:29 AM
The reason you had problems bending acrylic is that it is too hard to be used as a flexible material. Think of it as plastic glass. Polycarbonate is ideal for bending and is much more scratch resistant.

Thanks for the info, now I know!

DennisCA - venting outside is a great option. I wish I could do the same but my neighbors would complain! When I built my unit I converted a Grizzly 220v 2HP unit and for my shop so far I've not had any issues however as a portable unit it is only connected to one machine when it is used. See the image below.

Running ducts pipe is a great option I will convert mine sometime in the future.

I'd suggest installing micro switches so when you open a gate the unit comes on. Better yet when you turn on a machine, the gate is opened and the DC is turned on.

I'd also suggest installing a sensor to turn off the DC when your can gets full. I don't have this on my unit and at times I do over fill the Brute 20 gal can. When this happens dust goes into the bag otherwise the bag is empty.

If you look closely you can see that the walls of my Thien are Plexiglas. I did this because I wanted to see the action but it also allows me to see when the can is full. However I try to empty the can often and avoid the mess created when the can is full. I don't have a sensor to tell me when the can is full (bummer). If you go the Plexiglas route I suggest building a form to assist in bending the Plexiglas. I did not and it was difficult to correct my mistakes. My Plexiglas is 1/4" thick, I used a MAPP gas torch to heat and bend it. A good heat gun will also work. If you put too much heat it will bubble. Once you goof once or twice you quickly learn how much is too much. :)

Originally I was going to use a 32 gal Brute can but goofed on the spacing and had to use the 20 gal can. But this is good because the full 20 gal can is MUCH lighter than a full 32 gal can.

Somewhere I read that we need not be concerned about the static electricity and the article suggested using plastic pipe rather than metal. I have a central vacuum system in my 3200 square foot house and it has all plastic pipe. I've lived in the house now for 8 years and so far no issues.

JohnH - I modified my Grizzly somewhat like you are doing with your Jet and it works Great!! Hopefully I attached the picture correctly.

My original thought was to have a portable unit and just connect it as necessary. This is a pain and I plan to redesign and build a unit that will sit in some corner and have ducts running to each machine.

As you can see the Grizzly unit is on top of the Thien and pulls the air through it. I put Plexiglas between the top and bottom of the Thien, e.g. the sides. I wanted to see it in action. As it turns out this was a great move. Currently I don't have a sensor to shut off the unit when the can is full. However I can tell when the can is full because I see a LOT of dust in the Thien. Normally there is almost nothing in the bag unless I over fill the can. I used a 20 gal Brute partly because I goofed on the spacing and did not allow enough room for the 32 gal Brute but this goof was good for me. As I get older lifting 32 gal of dust is a bit difficult for me. I have a lazy-susan to lift and lower the can.

My Grizzly came with the two bags as you see in my image and I just left it that way. I goofed on the spacing to hold the bags in place and it is a pain to remove the lower bag which I've only done once and this was because I over filled the can.

My intake is a 4" pipe.

Future plans

• Convert to stationary unit
• Install sensor to shut unit off when the can is full
• Possibly change from 4" intake to 5"

Quote from: JeffQ on March 25, 2014, 08:56:51 AM
jgt1942 -  not to hi-jack this thread, but can you elaborate a little bit on your lazy susan "waste can raiser"?...  I'm particularly interested in a description of the threaded rod mechanism. I'm picturing a relatively small diameter threaded rod like a 1/2" all thread rod... but knowing optimally the concept would be best with a much wider heavy flange/pipe of 4-6" width for stability. I've guessing you used your threaded rod in conjunction with a plywood platform or two sandwiching the lazy susan ball-bearing plate.

I'll try. I picked up a weight lifting barbell at a local salvage yard for $3, the bar came with two threaded nuts (I call them nuts) to hold the weights on. All I wanted was the threaded end section of the barbell and the two nuts. Now let's reference the pic I've included.

• My threaded rod is almost 1" dia with 4 threads per inch. I wanted it to go up/down quickly
• The nut is a large, about 2 1/2" dia
• The bottom nut will be welded to a 8" sq plate 1/4" thick (see #1 & 2)
• The bottom plate (#2) will be either welded or bolted to the red frame (#3). This will force the rod to move up/down
• The top nut (#4 will be welded to another 8" sq plate, see #5)
• Not shown is a wooden circle 1 to 2" thick, dia is about 1 to 2" larger than the bottom of the can. The top sq metal plate will be attached to the wooden circle. The edge of the wooden circle will be routed out on the edge of the circle thus making it appear as if I have two circles glued together where the smaller circle (formed by the router) will be about 1" smaller. This will allow me to grasp and turn the circle. I could just cut two circles of wood and glue them together.
• The Lazy-Susan, #6, will be attached to the top of the wood circle.
• Another circle of wood, dia to match the dia of the can will be attached to the top side of the Lazy-Susan

At least this is the current plan. Another forum member made a lift that you might like, see http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1091.msg5925#msg5925

Quote from: WoodCzar on March 25, 2014, 06:26:33 AM
JGT, .......... I just took a look at your set up. What I was thinking is exactly what you have done, but leave the stock bag and filter configuration stock, and simply buy (if Harbor Freight will sell me one at a fair price) another metal 'separator' (component between the plastic bag and the fabric filter/see pictures) to modify and use as a top hat in place of fully fabricating one as you did.

What is the brand of the collector you have pictured? My HF metal separator has a wide tapered flange at the top of it (see picture). It could easily be capped off at the lower end of the flange with a outlet connection to go to the impeller. The bottom shape of this tapered flange (see picture) might help in air flow on the inlet. Of course it would have to be modded with a baffle to the bottom as well.

Your design looks great. It seems you used 1.5" angle for supports? Is that a stock metal platform that everything is sitting on? Is the angle welded to the platform? Looks sturdy.

Try inserting the pipe in the hole of the filter or place a board between the filter and the ring the filter is setting on with the pipe going through the board.

I think I know what you are asking. I have an older Grizzly where on the output of the impeller I had two bags, the bottom collected most of the dust and the top acted as a filter. Initially I installed the Thien baffle in the metal ring exasperating the two bags. It did work but nowhere near as good as the TopHat does. In my portable unit I still have the baffle installed just because I did not remove it (see my pic in your other thread).

WoodCzar/jdon I've attached my near finished build and open for any questions you have. I used Plexiglas for my wall and it is about 6" high and I have a 4" input. Originally I was going to use a 6" input but then decided I wanted my unit to be portable. Today I'd go with a stationary unit and run duct pipes (I still may run the duct pipes). Currently I have a 20 gal can under the TopHat but I suggest a 32 gal, the 20 gal fills up much too fast. I plan to modify my unit and use a 32 gal but this is a LOT of work, I'm almost rebuilding the unit.

I place the impeller above the tophat because I did not want to draw dust and other junk through the impeller. Before arriving at this decision I did draw a rather large piece of wood that managed to get past the web before the impeller and boy did that make some noise. The web before the impeller was consonantly getting blocked when I was doing some serious work on the planer. After the 5th time I decided the impeller unit had to go after the tophat.

If you go with a design as such be mindful that you have to empty the can, either you need something that can lift the motor, mine is about 70 lbs and is stationary or have a way to drop the can (this is what I will do) or have a flex hose between the tophat and the impeller so you can lift it enough to remove the can. I highly suggest you have either something that will lift the tophat or something that will lift the can. I will be installing a lazy-Susan on a threaded rod to lift my can.

Some guys have gone with 50 gal containers but IMHO this is MUCH too big.

The can under the Tophat must be rigid, e.g. it cannot be just a plastic bag (I tried this).

There are several drawings for Tophat plan, somewhere I have a SketchUp drawing that I found on the web.  I would suggest that you build a Tophat, I'm super pleased with my unit.