J. Phil Thien's Projects

Acadia, I didn't measure amps but after I completed my rebuild, I had the same results as you did. I have replaced all my ductwork with 24 gauge 6" click together stove pipe, changed my sharp 90's with 30 and 60 degree ells etc. Using the old hand in front of the duct trick I thought I had considerable loss so I made a home made manometer and was very dissapointed in the amount of loss. Without the separator in place I pulled 10" of suction, then I installed the separator and the suction fell to 6". Don't know where I went wrong but the results tell the tale. If anyone has any ideas please tell me.

On sawmill creek site, I saw a cyclone separator from an Ebay seller. I have also looked at the super dust deputy from Onieda. My question is, will the suction loss be comparable? Is this loss normal when we add the separator volume inline before the dc?

Help.

Raymond

My dc is 3 years old and when I first got it and found out what a pain it was to empty, I replaced the plastic bags with a couple of 30 gallon trash cans. I cut a window in each can and used some 1/8 inch Lexan that I had laying around. After drilling the holes through the Lexan and the cans, I placed a bead of silicone caulk on the can then bolted the Lexan over it and smoothed out the squeeze out. It still looks as good as it did originally. I placed the windows where they will let me see when the cans are about 2/3rds full.

I live in Salt Lake City and a local tool supply house ordered me some 6" plastic blast gates and they were about $10.00 each. They also ordered some 6" flex for $53.00 per 10'. This is the best online price I had found and this store matched it. The plus side, I didn't have to pay shipping. These people have been excellant to work with so I do as much business with them as possible. Some things I may pay a little more for but they stand behind what they sell, so it is worth it.

Hope this helps.

Raymond

If I may be so bold as to add a suggestion:

1) With the height off the floor that your container is, it is my opinion that a window cut into your container to show how full it is would be very beneficial.

2) Putting a blast gate on the fitting at the bottom would help in emptying.

I am re-doing the duct work on my system to 6" (almost complete) and had thought about doing a similiar setup as yours except I have some flat 26 gauge sheet and was going to wrap it into a funnel similiar to a cyclone. A tophat thein separator with a cyclone drop. Any thoughts from the readers?

Let us know how your setup works. It may help me decide if it is worth the trouble.

Raymond

pennstateind.com - Their web site shows a 7" drum connection hose for $9.95 per foot. They may also cut 6" for you if you contact them. I have had good service from them on the few times I have ordered stuff. Hope this will help.

Raymond

They will probably tell you that is the old style and the "new" style is the improved version. Give it a try, who knows.

I think if you flipped the rings, redrilled the holes to fit your supports you should be ok. If neither of the old holes match, put a bolt and nut through the old holes to plug them and have a good setup. You may have to bend the cone angle down but with the baffle I don't think you will collect much dust on top anyway.

With the baffle inside the dc, my question would be, do you still have to run an outlet pipe up through the cone to make it work as designed? Or does the internal cone do the job for you.

Personally, I didn't try this setup because I was trying to eliminate knots and other junk from going through the impeller when I was using a thickness planer.

Raymond

I guess I do not understand how your supports mount. On mine they are just an upright with 2 bolt holes. I know on my dc, looking at it from the front, I can remove my bag mounts and just do a hand over hand switch. Left mount over to right side still pointing to the rear and right side under to left side and all match up. My dc is probably newer than yours so maybe they changed the supports.

In the picture you posted on the 8th you can just barely see the support and it does look different. I am not sure if it can be modified or not.

Raymond

kcfalk: I have a Powermatic dc that looks almost exact to your Jet. The cones in my dc are above the inlet. I think if you only flip the bag attachments they should fit ok. Do not flip and reverse as you stated. I know when I was putting mine together I had to refer back to the manual because they could be installed upside down.

I hope you are able to switch them and add a baffle as you would like.

Good luck.


Raymond

I will fully concede that the best safety mechanism is the gray matter holding your ears apart. It just appears that some people don't have enough and have to be helped a little.

As has been stated, it is lack of attention or a distraction that causes most accidents. That is why, when I am in the shop and have on hearing protection (damn but I wish I had started using it sooner) my wife waits until I see her before she says something so she doesn't surpise me and cause an accident.

Dumbest thing I ever heard of was the lawsuit where the guy admitted to removing the guards and using a portable tablesaw in a very unsafe manner, cutting off some fingers and the jury awarded him a lot of money because the saw didn't have a built in safety device to protect dumba---.  Prime example of the jurers being dumber than the injured idiot. Kind of like the little ole lady spilling hot coffee in her crotch. It says HOT right on the side of the cup.

Nuff said.

Raymond

To each their own. I personally still have/use the guards on all my tools. Yes, they can be troublesome at times but they are a reminder for me. I do not have to work so fast that they slow me down and who knows, someday they may prevent me from doing something stupid. I made an overblade hood/dust pickup for my tablesaw. I will not call it a guard, just a reminder.

I too have wondered if these "safety devices" will make people complacent or not. There are all sorts of things that can go wrong very quickly. At one time, I was a night shift production manager in a cabinet shop. I saw one person from the day shift about 15 minutes after running the side of his hand through an 8" jointer. 1 person on my shift about 2 weeks later ran a forstner bit from a door hinging machine through 2 of his fingers. I took that person to emergency so yes, I am very familiar with the potential injuries. I am just saying being careful is not always the only answer. Sometimes, mechanical intervention is necessary to overcome that minute distraction.

If you do not want to use a sefety device that is indeed your choice but I think you are doing a disservice to try and convince others to follow your lead.

Just call me 10 fingers intact.

Raymond

Just saw a new overblade safety guard with dust collection. It is in the testing/developement stage and waiting on a patent. (Phil, you know what a hassle that is).

The web site is www.whirlwindtools.com. Looks very promising. It has a contact strip on the bottom edge of the guard the stops the blade if touched by your hand. It uses an electrical force instead of a brake that locks and drops. You don't ruin a blade and you have no cartridge to replace, just reset and restart your saw. It also has some LED lighting over the blade. The good thing is it is a retrofit setup, you don't have to buy a new saw for the safety feature. Hope it comes on the market so we can check it out.

I bet sawstop throws a fit but in my opinion it is enough different operation that there shouldn't be a problem. If I remember correctly, sawstop was originally a retro but no saw companies jumped on the bandwagon so sawstop made their own saw.

This may not be the correct forum for this info, but thought I would put it out there for all of you.

Raymond

Galerdude: Thank you for the info. I am not sure the polycarbonate I used was actully Lexan or not. My tophat is working for now so I am going to concentrate on my ductwork. I will look for actual Lexan when I do rebuild. Thanks for the information. Curious as to how a dado in the top and bottom panels would work? Just cut the top and bottom, cut the dado all the way to the edge on the entrance side, assemble that part and then just slide the Lexan into the dado so it is a captured fit. I am thinking that should seal it well enough that I wouldn't need to attach or caulk it. Thoughts?

Retired2: Top shelf work. I, like everyone else, am awaiting the results of the belled outlet. Thanks for the pictures, they are very informational.

Everyone on the east side be careful doing this upcoming storm. Hope everyone gets through with dry wood.

Raymond

I would like to see how you installed your plexiglass. The lexan I used ( 1/8 th inch) had a tendency to snap. I did not place it in a dado, I predrilled and countersunk some holes then tried drilling through that into the wood. It worked well on half the holes, then I hit the edge  of a hole in the lexan with the drill bit while holding the lexan in the curve. It snapped as soon as the bit hit the edge.

Looking at the tophat built by galerdude, it looks like that is how he installed his. Not sure.

Thanks, looks very good,

Raymond

The Lowes I go to carries both.

My dc definitely will collapse the 26 gauge in a long run, the fittings and short runs seem to hold up well. I have a 10' run that I noticed about half flat before I opened a gate. That is with a 2" open pipe on the same line (it doesn't have a gate on it, kind of a safety) it goes to my overblade hood. Don't remember if the picture I posted show it or not. The new 6" main line to my tablesaw and drum sander only goes 10' for now. I put a wye for the 4" to the saw and drum sander and the other leg goes to the 2". I placed the seam on top and taped it as I recall reading was proper.

Any feedback or ideas on my thoughts as to the possible cause for bypass? Overloading the system, maybe?

Thanks,

Raymond

The "old" design was a side inlet/standard baffle setup on a 30 gallon brute plastic trash can. The "new" design is a tophat on a 30 gallon metal trash can which is  20" i.d.

I have tried opening another line as you suggest and yes it does increase velocity in the separator BUT it decreases (by +/- 1/2) the suction on either line. My point being, you may/may not get better separation but you definitely lose suction at the tool where you are working. In my opinion, this has the possibility for dust/chips to fall out of the airstream and build up in the duct. I just need to continue to replace the 4" with 6" as money allows.

In regards to the bypass, I may have stumbled on my problem. I was jamming the duct into a bucket of chips to see how the system sucked them up. It did a great job of picking up fine dust and chips but because I was jamming the system the separator didn't have realistic time to do it's job. When I was running my table saw and a drum sander today the system worked great. Letting it do it's job instead of forcing it to do more than it was designed for made a drastic change.

I am also looking for a local distributor for some 1.5Xd ells as suggested. For the record, I have used 26 gauge duct and if I turn on the dc without having a gate open it WILL collapse the duct as long as 1 gate is open all is ok. I know I have a larger dc than most people on here have described but I just have to remember to have a gate open, so I always leave the 1 on the tablesaw open as a reminder.

Tahnks,

Raymond

Retired2: That "U" took 6 ells. I had to buy 2 more than I had on hand. At Lowes they are $4.98 each for 6".  I think I can move the "U" towards the front of the separator and put 3 ells together for a 90 and put about 18" of straight pipe to the dc from there. This will eliminate the last sharp 90. I will continue to change out to 6" pipe as money allows. It takes 3 ells to make a 90 the way I have done it for a cost of $14.94. Lowes is only 4 miles from my house. This may look funny but is a lot cheaper than Oneida, Pennstate etc for basically the same results, plus I don't have to wait for it to get here when I want to make a quick change. This does seem to have more suction than my original design but I seem to have a little more bypass than I did with the original Thein Baffle setup. I am thinking it may have to do with the outlet pipe. Will have to play with that and see.