J. Phil Thien's Projects

I don't think you can go wrong with the orginal Thien Baffel "elbow" or the top hat design. I've been using the original elbow baffel with a central shopvac set up for many years and it works like a charm. I have 6 2.5" pipe drops run to all my machines and work areas. I am upgrading to a Delta 50-760 DC with a thien tophat seperator and 5" metal pipe replacing my 2.5 in pipe. I'am using 5" pipe because that is the size of the intake on the 50-760. I will run 5" pipe right to the machine outputs and use 5" to 4" reducers at the machine until I can figure out how to improve the machine ports. I'll continue to use my Thien shopvac for shop cleanup and small handheld tools.

From my experiance with the orginal Thien baffel I would not consider running a DC without a Thien Baffel based Seperator of some Kind. You will run into filter clogging issues if you do a lot of fine sanding but this is a problem with all DC systems.

I've attached a PDF file that shows the parts and deminsions I used to build a tophat seperator. The deminsion you should start with for a tophat is the inside diameter of your collection can, that would be the OD of your thien baffel dropslot. The inside height of the tophat can be the diameter of your input pipe. I used 5 15/16 because that was the width of the inner ring materal I had. I think a round to rectangular input transition is also a good thing because it reduces turbulance at the tophat input. At final assembly I will double back tape all the layers together to seal up any leaks.

I created these part drawings using DoubleCAD XT.

Check out this post

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=618.0

Ron

If the only problem you are having is at your jointer/planer, you could run some experiments by building a smaller diameter tophat, at the jointer/planer output, to increase velocity and also play with larger baffel slots to see what works best. If you find that it works you could just leave it there. It shouldn't impact the other branches of your DC system.

Ron

Check out this flapper design on this website

http://www.wynnenv.com/paddle_cleaner.htm

Ron

Here are instructions for making a round to rectangular Duct Evolution.
I downloaded these instructions from the following Web Site:

http://joe.emenaker.com/DuctEvolution/index.html

I used joe's EXCEL and PDF instructions to create a drawing file using "DoubleCAD XT" which is a very good and free drafting package from this Web Site.

http://www.doublecad.com/ 

The drawing file is attached below.

The first image is showing the full scale print out of the drawing taped to a 12" X 24" X 24Gauge sheetmetal I used the full 12" height to capture a 2" section of round & Rectangular overlay outside of the fold requirements.



The second Image shows the sheetmetal being marked as the paper is cut away at the cut lines. The fold lines are marked at the ends and scaled later with a steel rule & knife.



The third Image shows the sheetmetal marked complete.



The forth Image shows sheetmetal cutout and ready to bend. I used 2 pieces of angle iron clamped to the bench to do the bending. The bottom section is the 2" Rectangular portion and the top section past the bend marks are for attaching the round inlet port with a finshed edge.



I got carried away during the bending and assembly process and forgot to take any pictures. The bending is an easy process since you only need to make very small 15 deg. bends. I used a "hook" joint and a 5" round insert too attach the transition together at the seam, then I hammered the seam closed and filled it with solder. The rectangular end I just rivited (Hammer & anvel not pop rivits) the ends together. I then attached (rivits) a 5" finished section from a 4" to 5" transition then taped up all the rivited joints.

The following pictures are the finished product and how it inserted into the tophat. I was lucky to get a press fit, when I installed the top the Evolution can't be removed.







I haven't used the tophat yet since I am still working on my duct work. I will post some more pictures on my top hat build and what I am doing with my duct work and 50-760 DC.

I ordered my duct work parts from KenCraft.com on Jan 4 and They shipped it Today 1/5. Good service...

Here is the DoubleCAD XT file:

ftp://

Ron

Kevin, Check out this web site. there is a lot of information about Ducts, Dust collection, flow rates and  etc. Look in the Engineering tab (Left side bottom) and right above in the Dust Collection tab. There are a lot of specs on this web site.

Ron 

http://www.spiralmfg.com/prod.htm

Jeth, Congratulations on a very unique and clever "step forward" on the Vac seperator design. Please post some results from fine sanding operations as that is where most of the seperator issues are.

Ron

Here's what Bill Pentz has to say about the spinning air inside the cyclone vrs the spin of the impeller. This may not make a big differance in a basic Thien Seperator but could have some effect in a TopHat design, where the spin inside the tophat is counter to the spin of the impeller.

From Bill Pentz's website. (link below)
If the spinning air inside the cyclone hits the blower impeller going the wrong way, then the motor must do lots of extra work to reverse that spin and we lose considerable airflow. We need to make sure our cyclone, motor and impeller spins match! I prefer to build either a left or right hand cyclone to best match the shop in which it gets installed. We can easily figure out which way the air spins in our cyclone. The airflow coming into the cyclone will spin in the same direction that the inlet starts it. The air in my cyclone design spirals down then goes up without changing direction of spin. So a left hand cyclone will have its inlet coming out the back left of the cyclone which means we get a clockwise airflow. Most build left hand cyclones because that airflow matches most available impellers and reversed impellers are expensive and hard to find. If the inlet is located on the back right of the cyclone then the airflow inside is counterclockwise and we have a right hand cyclone. Both right and left separate equally well, but only if you match the motor, impeller and cyclone airflows.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/BuildCyclone.cfm

Ron

I loaded the dxf file into DoubleCad XT and did some auto deminsioning. Here is the result as a PDF and dxf file. I
hope this helps with some of the questions.

Ron

Retired2... I also have a 50-760 collector that I am designing a TopHat for and I really like your design which I will use as much of as possible. One of the biggest issues with the seperator is knowing when the can is full and then emptying it (I've had a DC seperator since 2008 and I always have to disconnect the hoses and remove the can). I installed a CanFull window after over filling it a few times

With the TopHat configuration I was planning to attach the TopHat directly to the under side of the 760 with the 760 inlet going directly into the top of the TopHat (making it part of the 760). I will set my can on a platform that can be reaised and locked to mount the can to the TopHat. To empty the can I just lower it and slide it out. This will allow me to use a larger can and not have to connect/disconnect any hoses.

The only design required to impliment this approch would be the platform raising/lowering and locking mechanism. It could be very simple, a couple blocks of wood and a wedge under the can or more complex platform design with a mechanical lift assembly.

Have you had any thoughts along this line.?

Ron

 

I will try and post some pictures of my Thien Seperator with shop Vac setup. Mine is a portable unit as you can see, but I use is as a central vac system with overhead drops and gates at all my tools and work bench. I am upgrading to a Delta 50-760 with a 5" main run and 4" drops. I'm designing the Thien separator now. Because of my head space I will be using a Wynn filter on the 760. 

The first picture shows my setup with the Thien 10 gal Separator setting on a small shelf on top of the SV. The shop piping goes off to
the left and up. This picture also shows my "Can Full" window to the upper left of the can label. I tried using a plastic bag inside the separator with a wire mesh support, but it was a PITA so I dropped that Idea. I just take the can to the trash and dump it (Outside).

No 2 shows the top of the separator with Phil's standard configuration (2008). This thing works great.

No 3 Shows the inside when it needs to be emptied.

No 4 shows The dust collection and my lost rag.

No 5 Shows The bottom side of the Thien Baffel

No 6 shows not much dust in the SV can.

No 7 shows The filter not bad at all.

No 8 shows my remote control setup, an outdoor 15 Amp christmas light remote controller ($4) works great, Ive been using this one since 2003 to control my shop vac. I used this for testing my 50-760 and it works, but I only used it about 10 on/off cycles.

I want to thank Phil for all the effort he's put in to making small shop dust collection a reality. This is the only way to go for shop vac and dust collector preseprators/filters

Ron