Well, I have been looking long enough to know that this design works well, and decided to give it a shot. Before I start with anything I want to thank all in the forum who participated with the evolution of this thing.
Hopefully this write up will help those out who want to tackle an interesting and useful build.
It is going to come in stages because there is a lot of detail I want to show here so be patient and I will get it all up.
To start with is a Video (the easiest to show) ...it is about halfway into the project but hi quality pics and text will come and it will take you from the beginning to end.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/TheinDustCollector_002.jpg)
-Jason aka Pitbull
http://www.freeforum101.com/charlesneil/index.php?mforum=charlesneil
Video #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P4ORN_iUTs
The design is modeled from VaWoodworker's (excellent design man) with a few adaptations that I thought would make it easier to apply to any size container.
Nicely done. And I was just thinking there were no woodworking shows on my DVR (maybe due to the holiday). Now I can watch you instead.
Hurry up. ;D
How to part 1
I chose a 32 Gallon Rubbermaid Brute Trash Can for this. Even though I have a 44 gallon, the 32 with the sperator mounted on it might allow me to mount it to my current dust collector setup which is mobile. I am not using the HF model but it is a Grizzly and very similar.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040672.jpg)
I cut 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to 22-3/8" square. This will allow all the room you need to make this work for this 32 gallon brute. Mark your center point and drill the hole for the trammel.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040675.jpg)
You don't have a trammel? OK, here is an easy one to build. The pics should tell most of the story.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040676.jpg)
Plywood base with hardwood runner. T-slot to slide it in. Use a thumb screw with a nut pressed in from under neath to apply pressure and hold it tight.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040677.jpg)
You can make larger/smaller holes which is determined by which end of the hardwood slide is put in first.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040678.jpg)
OK here it is top side. Pretty simple and effective. Best used with a plunge router.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040679.jpg)
So here I cut for my outer diameter of the can. I am about 5/16" deep. No need to go deeper and sacrifice the MDF integrity.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040680.jpg)
Now I am making the final pass for a friction fit. SNEAK UP ON IT. After you rout for the exterior of the can, you want to gradually cut closer until you can press-seal it to the top. If done right it acts like a Tupperware lid. You can make adjustments by just unscrewing the thumb bolt on the trammel and give it a gentle bump forward...talking like taking < 1/64" increments at a time once you are close.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040682.jpg)
Now that we got it fitting tight to the can lets get it cleaned up. Time to make a into a partial circle. I allowed about a 1/4" over hang from the can's edge, which is plenty. No need to get carried away. Since the board was cut the size I wanted from the get go I just bump the router bit to the edge (carbide touching), lock the trammel bolt down, and make passes gradually getting deeper. Do not be a hero and try to rout this all in one pass.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040683.jpg)
As seen in the photo. The top left corner is not to be touched. You are basically going to rout out 270 degrees on the outside only.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040684.jpg)
This illustrates how I am making light passes here. Again, notice I am not routing the top left corner.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040685.jpg)
Flip the piece over and finish the cut using the same hole for the trammel. (Note it is important you drill the hole 90 degrees straight or you cut can be off once flipped). Also of note, the corner you do not want to rout through is now oriented differently. Make sure you make a mental note because it is not easy to recognize now. Better yet, mark it.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040687.jpg)
All done with the bottom piece
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040688.jpg)
Here it is sitting on the can flipped upside down to see detail. Again it fits on tight like a Tupperware lid. The garbage can can be lifted off the ground while holding the board. You want it like this.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040689.jpg)
DO NOT change your trammel setting at all from the last step. Grab the top piece (untouched so far except initial cutting and marking, a drilling) and make it a circle just like the bottom and you will have 2 pieces that will fit nice. Once done, grab a compass and measure from the outside of the edge to the inner lip (from the bottom of the first piece you did) the fits over the can's ring. This will be used to scribe the exact inner diameter on the side we are going to build on.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040690.jpg)
Run the compass on the opposite side(inner side of bottom board) of the board now along the edge. Make a few passes to darken the line. Pretty easy...works every time. This line will be the basis for our entire interior layout.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040691.jpg)
Now grab that drill bit you used to make the trammel pilot holes and pit it back into the hole.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040692.jpg)
Use a piece of string and wrap it around the bit. Wrap the other end around the pencil while holding it to the line we just drew and then arc it around slow and taught to meet the other piece of the arc. This will complete the circle we could not do with the other compass because of the corner.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040694.jpg)
Notice I am just pinching that string tight to the pencil body as I draw the line on the wood. Now I know that the line would deviate from its true arc if we were to keep going because it would wind closer the farther it went around the drill bit...but for this instance it is damn close enough.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040695.jpg)
Once done it should look like this
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040696.jpg)
Now I am measuring a piece of hardboard that will be used to skin the interior of this thing. Use the compass to get a pretty close but rough measurement and take that back to the board and mark it.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040698.jpg)
This mark will be done by placing the point on our circle we just drew and marking towards the outside edge
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040699.jpg)
Now use the compass pin pressed against the outside edge and put the pencil on the mark that was made to re adjust the compass. This will be another circle (well almost a circle) the will be used for construction purposes which will represent the skin thickness and its distance from the inside of the can. Run the compass around the board again to transfer this mark. It is not important to make a full circle like it was the first line.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040701.jpg)
Using the string from before, lets get a total measurement of the perimeter. Run the string all the way around and mark where it intersects.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040702.jpg)
You can then pull the string tight and measure the distance. This will be a rough measurement for the piece of wood needed to band this thing up. The piece of wood does not need to be this total measurement right now but it is useful to know as you will see.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040703.jpg)
I wrote down some rough distance info on the board here. This is the distance of where the wood stops circling and starts to go to the 90 degree point. I will apply these measurements once I begin the slotting of the plywood so I can bend it to shape.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040705.jpg)
How to Part 2
Get a piece of scrap wood. It is important that it is from the same piece of plywood that you will be using to band this thing. It will take a couple passes on the saw before you find the balance in not trying to take to much away, but needing it to be very pliable. The trick is making the cut just deep enough that when held up it will start to droop. This is perfect. You do not want to fight the board. Let the veneer flex naturally. As a side note, this will work best with cheap, crappy plywood like what is being used here. Hardwood veneer core, Combo Cores or anything you would want to build cabinets with would not work very well because they are made much better than this crap...which is known as Shop Grade Birch Plywood.
As you can see in the picture the perfect depth for me was the middle one. It left one veneer and was strong enough not to break when flexed inward. DO not flex outwards. Also I made many more cuts than what is show here while testing this.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040706.jpg)
For this wood and the diameter of the build, it seemed that 1-1/8" O.C. was very good spacing for my saw kerfs to get the bend right and doing the minimum amount of cuts needed.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040707.jpg)
Flexes real nice and easy. If you can not do this...then you are not cutting it right.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040708.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040709.jpg)
I started by cutting my wood down to size according to the measurement taken with the string. The width is 6-1/2". Cut your final width at this point because it will be very hard/dangerous to do it after. I also laid out wit ha mark the length of board I did not want kerfs sawn into it. This will be the straight part of the bend.
No need to mark the wood for every kerf. Do you first cut and then the second to get the spacing you want. Mark a reference line in pencil on your table saw and then just slide the kerf to that line for each cut afterward. Its speeds it up a lot, but do not go to fast this is a somewhat dangerous cut and repetition is what gets you in trouble when your mind wanders.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040710.jpg)
As you cut the piece is going to need to be supported. Do not try to do this with out supporting the piece.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040711.jpg)
After you get to the half way point or slightly past....flip it end for end and lay the majority across your saw. If you are lucky enough to have a cabinet saw, this is a big help.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040712.jpg)
Alright, done with that! Now the test fitting. Get some clamps ready to go and gently maneuver your banding board on top of your piece. Note that the bottom is elevated about 3". Do this now because you will need to get clamps under it.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040713.jpg)
So here I am wrestling this over sized snake wood to get a closer measurement of where I want to cut it do for the glue up.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040714.jpg)
Getting some clamps on it helps hold the form and make it much more manageable.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040715.jpg)
I get it clamped down and use the inlet port as a reference as to where I will cut it off at. You want to cut the banding after it exits the arc...but not to close to the port. This is where all you reference marks come into play. Use them!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040716.jpg)
Here is the measurement for show. 6-1/2". Just enough wiggle room to work everything around in.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040718.jpg)
This is the glue I am using for clamping the band on. Do not use a faster setting glue (like regular yellow or white), you will regret it. This was almost not enough. Took about 10+ minutes to get it all clamped up
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040719.jpg)
Slow and steady. Numerous times I had to reposition the clamp while moving to the next one. Its not hard to do, but I definitely could of used more clamps to make it easier....oh well a little challenge is not bad.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040720.jpg)
Here is the aerial view. You can see it taking shape. You may think that this design looks week with only a thing veneer holding it together, but it is damn strong once the glue sets up. One the hardboard skin goes on it is even more resilient.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040721.jpg)
Time to take a break at this point and let your glue set up. I would give the glue a full 24 hours to cure because we are going to clamp it from the side. No reason to ruin anything...right.
Great videos. I'm getting set to put my DC together and this is definitely a project I will take on. I've seen VAwoodworker's design. What do you think about routing a 1/4" dado in the top and bottom and bending hardboard into the dado ??? instead of bending the ply. Would make it lighter, but I don't know if 1/4" will take that bend. 1/8th"???
Clay that is a perfectly good way to do this. I thought about doing it that way, but I wanted to use materials from my scrap pile and while I have lots of 1/4" plywood but it isn't the bending type. So, 1/4" would not bend this angle, I am sure of that...and 1/8" is a toss up. More than likely it would snap (How do I know this??? Stay tuned for the next installment) You could always do a hardwood lamination if your up for it, but lots of extra time would be involved.
I don't know if you have access to a mill that stocks bending plywood (called this because all the grain from the veneer runs the same direction). There are actually to types I know of, a fiber core and veneer core. It is meant to do round forms and would work excellent with this project.
So yes it could work with the right materials...but check back because I have I went in a different direction as you will see.
Thanks I will definitely be watching your progress.
Video #2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UsQbZ3Pfjg
Ok so this will be getting a little bit ahead of where we left off with the detailed instructions, but it is a lot faster to get this going right now. So I will fill in the blanks later on with the pics and write up.
How to #3
So here is what it all looks like with the clamps off
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040727.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040728.jpg)
I wanted to add a filler piece here to bump out the skin to the same circle. So I pencil it in and then go cut to find the angle.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040729.jpg)
I used the same scrap wood which was cut off the end of the piece we used to make our molding and I brought it over to the miter saw and started cutting until I found the right angle. I found that 18 degrees seemed to work the best to mimic the angle. Once I put it in place to check the angle I drew a line across to back to reference the outside edge of the form. This is where we will cut our rabbit.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040731.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040733.jpg)
Carry the mark you made over the edges and wrap it. Mark the waste you will take out and head to the table saw to remove it. Once you get the width right, test fit another piece in the dado...soon to become the rabbit....and cut the rest of the piece off with a miter gauge (as seen to the left of the pencil). Save this cutoff...it will be used as well.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040735.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040737.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040738.jpg)
I used CA glue here to get a nice quick set. I also shot three brads through it into the form for a little security.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040740.jpg)
Here is just a scrap piece held in place to see why I made that joint
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040742.jpg)
So now I hit a major turning point in the project. I had originally intended to skin the inside with this 1/8" hardboard and while test bending it it did not feel so pliable and I was pretty sure it was going to snap. Well it did. Plan B. I had a scrap piece of laminate laying around and dusted it off. It was going to be the new skin. So basically as I got to thinking about it, the laminate makes more sense and is easier than using the hardboard...so it kind of worked out better. If only this scrap piece of laminate was long enough to do in one shot...
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040743.jpg)
So to the table saw yet again...One thing you will most likely have to do is make a zero clearance fence to your table top. I would not recommend cutting laminate without doing this. It is safe and will give great results. MDF is an excellent choice for something like this. Just get a long board and two clamps. The reason I like MDF is because I know it is .75" all day every day. So I just added that extra amount to the original 6-1/2" width...don't forget this step. 7-1/4" is dead on.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040744.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040745.jpg)
If you have not worked with laminate then you are about to get a short lesson on it. Its easy as long as you have the right tools. Rubber Cement, J Roller or equivalent, gloves, disposable brush and respirator. The rest is following directions. So lay down a nice coat on both pieces...the form and the laminate in this case and let dry until it hazes over (about 10-15 minutes usually). Trying to put the two pieces together it any sooner actually reduces its fast setting initial tack.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040747.jpg)
You can see I am using some stir sticks here. This is so when I am laying it down it won't stick where I don't want it to. Don't let it beat you, you are in charge. I clamped the very beginning of it once I set it in place and then rolled it onto the form. A few blocks and clamps were put in place for a little extra security. It was a little cold and was not setting as fast as I wanted to and I wanted to move on.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040748.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040749.jpg)
Here is the second piece of laminate going on. I had to do it in pieces, which has its pros and cons. After this piece went on I decided it best to complete the form.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040752.jpg)
I grabbed that last scrap I had saved and put it into the rabbit joint and then marked my line on the inside for the cut. Again, sneak up on it so you have a nice tight fit.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040753.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040754.jpg)
Here it is in place with the scribe mark of the intake fitting we will be using. I glued it in place with TB III, and then screwed 3 screws into the left side through the form. Add clamps where you can and let dry before continuing. This piece is going to take abuse if you are removing the hose a lot.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040755.jpg)
nice one!
Where did you buy the 32 gal Trash Can? Can't find it anywhere.
The 32 Gallon Brute Can was bought at Lowes for $30
How to Part 4:
Video #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_SBuQQC0Q
Get a rough measure of the diameter of the outlet by drawing it on the top. Try to center it. Draw a few lines through the middle, measure and average them out.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040776.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040779.jpg)
Adjust your trammel for less than what you average. Sneak up on this cutout. If you made the trammel I am using pull out the bar and flip it around. Now you can do a much smaller diameter circle. Note the pin placement on the slide.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040777.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040778.jpg)
Set you router/trammel into the center hole, adjust your stop to about 1/8" depth and then make sure your bit is less distance than 1/2 the diameter of what you averaged the last step. Rout a pass and check fit the outlet. Continue as needed until it fits in the hole. Do not make the hole super tight. You have a smaller diameter at the end of the pipe then you will in the middle because the pipe is crimped.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040780.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040784.jpg)
Once you get it right, adjust your depth to cut out the circle in a few passes. Make sure the piece is elevated so the waste can fall through. As you cut through the last of the circle you will be free cutting. Go slow and push the router a bit towards the middle as the center piece falls through. You might need to clean it up a bit with a chisel/sandpaper. Use an oscillating spindle sander if you have one, its easier.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040785.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040787.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040788.jpg)
The last of the laminate work is done. I wanted to brace the laminate more where I arched it out earlier. I am using a stir stick for this. I cut a bevel on it while in a vise and then used CA glue to glue it to the form and laminate. I clamped it to make sure it would grab everything when setting up.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040790.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040792.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040793.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040801.jpg)
Now it is time to finally cut the hole for the inlet. I used the top as a template. But first I had to get the form to sit up right and not move. Using some clamps and scrap 2x4 I chucked it in place like a tire. It held very well.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040802.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040804.jpg)
Since the was no place to clamp the top/template on the form I used double sided tape. This had plenty of holding power to get the job done. I decided to jig saw out the hole and clean it up with the router while the template was in place. You could do the jigsaw first then put on the template, but the top edge of the form is very thin and provided little support for the jig saw cut. After the hole was cut I just needed a pattern bit to clean it up.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040806.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040813.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040814.jpg)
The pattern bit got loaded in a trim router and made quick work of the hole opening.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040817.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040820.jpg)
Time to fit the inlet pipe and get it cut down so it hopefully does not impede airflow. I marked a center point and then just drew on a line on the inlet and started cutting. It took a few tries before I was happy with the amount I wanted to cut away.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040824.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040826.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040827.jpg)
Now it is time to make our last routing operation to this thing. I flipped it over and marked the bottom with the beginning of the 120 arc that would not be getting routed out. Then I used a angle finder to hit the magic 120 degree that Phil Thien says to do and marked it. This could be done with less technical instruments such as a square and bevel gauge, but I have this so I used it. Next I went and marked the 1 -1/8" width on the line that would start the arc I am routing out. I kept the opening a little off the dado that snugs the can lid. If needed (meaning if the chips are not falling through because of the little ledge) I can fix it later, but will also be enlarging the opening of the waste hole.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040829.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040831.jpg)
I started by adjusting the bit to my marked opening line and plunging on the line on both sides and then coming back to clean up the middle. Unfortunately this bit was not long enough and I was to lazy to put another one in...so I decided to finish up the waste slot with the pattern bit. I cleaned up to the end of the slot with a sharp chisel then gout routing. It works fine because the top half of the slot is now a template. I just has to cut a hole into the middle of the slot then pull the pattern bit to the template and rout it out.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040832.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040833.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040835.jpg)
Finished with the cutting!
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040836.jpg)
Time to glue the inlet and outlet in place. I use Locktite Powergrab. The stuff works great and I have used it for applications with wood and metal before so I know it will hold up. Put on thick bead and then smooth it out. Insert it into the hole and then run your finger around the excess and form a nice beveled bead. Apply some on the inside of the form and smooth it out as well. I could not get everywhere on the inside, but it will hold. I am sure of it. The top is much easier.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040837.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040838.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040840.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040841.jpg)
Time to let it sit overnight and dry hard. Finally assembly and testing is next.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/P1040842.jpg)
Wow :o looking good. Any reason you waited till now to drill the hole in the intake board?
Clay-
I have learned that waiting until you need to do it (meaning hole) with wood working projects is the best possible plan to go by. I could have routed it out earlier, but I may have had a plan change along the way like I did a few times with other things. Doing it this way I can make sure I did not make a fatal mistake early on that could have easily been avoided.
If anyone is going to replicate this once I am done, assuming that it actually works, then go ahead and cut the hole when ever best suits your project schedule.
Video #4 -- Testing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZSK88Hjl3A
This has been a great thread/tutorial. You have shown craftsmanship and innovation. Thanks for taking the trouble to record and document the project and share.
I especially liked the last video. Learned a whole lot from watching the airflow. This has given me a few ideas to try out when I finally get around to buildin mine. I thought the anti-clockwise airflow as you look through the inlet was particularly interesting.
Dave
Video #5 - Final Testing and Analysis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhnBvdeaWS8
Pitbull, that really looks good. Do you plan to leave you system configured as it currently is? I have all of my components and am going to start building a tophat similar to what you have done, but I think that I am going to disassemble my DC and hard pipe from the separator to the DC blower. Keeping the flex pipe between the two would simplify emptying the container though.
My biggest concern and reason for modifying my current setup is the extremely fine dust that I get from the drum sander. I made eight end grain cutting boards for Christmas presents and found that I had to remove my top bag and turn it inside out and clean it in between each cutting board. Prior to doing that much drum sanding I only had to shake the bag to dump some of the fines into the lower bag.
Have you run you system connected to a ?powder? producer yet? I am curious to see how many ?fines? may have ended up in the filter. (I am also adding a Wynn filter as part of my conversion)
Steve
Thanks bulldog. I am in the process of ducting my shop, I just moved the shop here recently and this is usually the last thing I will do once I get it configured how I want it..for now I just connect to the equipment as needed. I have quick connects. I will keep the flex pipe for emptying the container for sure once it is set up.
I do not have a drum sander here to test it on so I can not comment on how it works yet with that. But I can tell you that once you get a canister type filter....the problems you are having with the bag clogging will go away. The sooner the better. I would not expect it to be 100% efficient, but I have a smaller cyclone that I hook up to my sander and it scrubs the fines real good.
http://www.freeforum101.com/charlesneil/viewtopic.php?t=1568&mforum=charlesneil
Of course this is not enough suck for a drum sander but from my experience with this cyclone...I have high hopes for the Thein separator to scrub a good amount of this fine dust. Obviously a higher HP motor with a larger impeller is the ticket....The HF model, if that is what you have, does not really have enough balls for this task. Its inlet and impeller is to small to really do this job properly. For larger chips...jointer, planer...it works great.
Chuck-
1) The poster was referring to his bag getting caked with the finest of all dust (sanding)...which required him to completely disassemble the bag, turn it inside out and blow it out to regain its effectiveness. This is frustrating and time consuming. Again you are right, a canister will get caked up as well. However, the big difference between a bag and canister is that you can knock the dust off/out of it with much greater results. Secondly, the pleated canisters are more effective of moving more way more air than any bag of comparable size while offering superb filtration. So if this is the hype you do not like, so be it.
2) I did not make the blanket statement that the HF dust collector is not powerful enough to pull from a single machine. Pleas re-read my post. A drum sander is by far the hardest machine to collect the majority if the dust from. We are not dealing with chips here. It separates the men from the boys in dust collection equipment. The original poster did not specify how large of a drum sander he has, but I can tell you with certainty that putting a HF claimed "2HP" dust collector with its small impeller on a drum sander (most commonly 15" or larger with 2 ports or more) and running it through a separator will give average results versus a real 2+ HP dust collector with a larger inlet and impeller.
The HF dust collector is a very good piece of equipment, price not even factored into the equation, when used on the right equipment. However, I stand by my claim it physically does not have enough balls to safely (meaning grabbing the stuff you can not see) pull the majority of tiny dust particles especially if it was being run through a ducted shop. In my previous post I did not say it would not work...I said it would not work properly.
We will have to agree to disagree on this. I am sticking with physics.
I will agree with everything you just said Chuck. Drum Sanders could be more efficient...but they are not engineered that way. It takes lots of CFM to compensate for this and that is why you do see many people rigging up alternative dust collection methods on these machines.
However the HF dust collector still shoots itself in the foot right from the get go with its 5" inlet and small diameter impeller. Their claimed airflow numbers are physically impossible. There are plenty of 1-1/2 HP dust collectors on the market that will run circles around the HF unit in suction capacity that have 6" inlets and 12" impellers, and forget about comparing it to legit 2HP units. I singled out the HF unit in the past posts because I know it suffers these symptoms even though it is marketed otherwise. Basically I am saying HF makes false claims.
The solution is simple...if drum sanding...do not expect a HF unit to work as well as others. Its static pressure limitations suck...well not really. ;D
Chuck, the problem that I am having is the drum sander producing so much fine dust that the bag becomes clogged. The bag has such a thick layer of fine dust that the DC's CFM is reduced to the point where dust is no longer being collected from the sander. If I turn the DC off and beat the bag, it helps restore some of the loss of suction. However, to get full CFM restored I have to remove the bag to get rid of the fine dust. Simply shaking the bag down leaves most of the powder laying on the baffle just to go back into the top bag when the DC is turned back on. I don't have a problem with the system with any other machine, just the sander.
Steve
Nice work. I've leaned on this heavily as I try to build one similar to it. I have a question about the outlet pipe - the one connecting the separator to the DC. How far into the "top hat" do you run that pipe. Does it make a difference?
Hey Hardwood, the outlet pipe from the baffle to the DC blower should stick down into the baffle at a distance of half its diameter. So if you have a 4" pipe it protrudes 2" below the top of the baffle, if 5" it protrudes 2 1/2" and so forth. According to Phil's notes, this does have an effect on scrubbing. If you had it flush with the top of the baffle, it would be in dirtier air and the cyclonic scrubbing would be less effective.
Thanks, that's what I needed to know.
On this one however, the 6" outlet pipe is penetrating about 2-1/4" below the bottom of the top piece of wood. So it is not the ideal 3" standard, but it works fine. I have wondered if it would work better if it was a true 3" long, but I have zero complaints as to its current efficiency.
I forgot to post the final pics with this project, sorry. Better late than never-
6" Steel pipe was used for as much of the runs as possible. The flex lines are 6" wire reinfoced. The last flex line you see before the separator was put in so that the main line could easily disconnect from the separator. The motor housing was tapconned into the wall on a custom built right angle platform made from 2x4 and plywood. The air filter housing is bolted to the wall with a wood cleat (not seen in the photo) and the steel arm once used to prop it up from the rolling base was inverted and now is bolted to a piece of wood screwed to the truss in the ceiling. It is all rock solid and has totally exceeded what I thought possible for a system like this.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/TheinDustCollector_001.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/wetlandwoodworks/Dust%20Seperator/TheinDustCollector_002.jpg)
Hey Pitbull a couple of questions for you. Our systems are pretty similar, did your Griz DC start with a Wynn filter or did you upgrade from bags? I had 1 micron bags and then upgraded to the Wynn filter. Their is considerably more air noise now than before. I am looking at putting a muffler between the fan/motor and the filter to quiet this thing back down.
My system used to have a lower cloth bag and I now use the clear bag that came with the Wynn filter. I am getting a little fine dust blow by where the plastic bag meets the DC. I see that you have blue tape on yours in that area. Did you tape and then clamp your bag in position?
I must say that I am very happy with the top hat style of setup. I still haven't gotten so much as a chip in my plastic bag. I do get some fines in the filter that I use compressed air to blow down to the plastic bag and then empty. Last weekend I emptied the drum for the 3rd time without cleaning the filter, so I blew the filter down and got about a cup of fines in the lower bag. This was from normal wood working, not a lot of drum sanding, but basically using everything in the shop including a small amount of drum sanding. I am really curious to see the results that SloMo gets from his all metal tophat.
Steve
Steve-
The Grizzly unit I have came with some old school bags for top and bottom....I highly doubt they were 1 micron as the original date of this D/C is 2004. I bought it used a few years ago then added the Wynn filter immediately before usage and threw the old bags away.
When changing the bag on the bottom (no need to do it anymore) I used three pieces of tape about 2" long spaced about 120 degrees to hold the bag in place until I put the band around it. Then I take the blue tape and completely seal the bag to the frame all the way around to stop any possible blow-by. This has always seemed to work because all the time for the past couple years when I pull the tape off it was always still sticking to the frame...so nothing was getting by that I could see.
I think SLoMo will get a noisier top hat with all that metal. As for the muffler...if you go that route let me know if it was worth it. I certainly would not mind queting the system down a bit. Do some before/after video to test sound levels. THe reason it is noisier is because it is moving that much more air than the bags were.
JAson
What's the best method you've found to get the separator off so you can empty the bin when it's full? Do you french cleat the top hat and hang it on the wall while you empty the collection bin? I was trying to manage to work a rigid pipe between the blower unit and the top hat but, short of an engineering degree, I can't see how to lift the resulting monstrosity off the bin to get it out and empty it.
I've seen another member's chain-lift system but that relies on a slip-fit with the rigid pipe from blower to separator which I'd like to avoid (leak potential). Is there an obvious way to get the top hat off the can that I'm missing?
Thanks,
Steve
Steve-
I slip the outlet flex pipe up and off and pull the inlet pipe off (notice the flex line in the picture on the ducting after the last wye), then I lift the top hat of and lay it on the floor while changing cans. Takes less than a minute.
Bulldog-
Its been a while and just wondering if you ever put on that muffler and if so did it work out for you?
-Jason
I haven't added a muffler. After making the bottom plastic bag shorter and closing in the bottom DC ring, the DC was quieter than the original bag configuration before the Wynn filter. It's been such a miserable summer here that I haven't been in the shop much. I may build a muffler this winter, just to see how it works.
Steve
(http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj359/mannsj/DSCF0050.jpg)
(http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj359/mannsj/DSCF0049.jpg)
What/where did you get the plastic lid and retaining clip from? Looks like there is a little bit of a dip in the middle...perfect to plastic weld a 2" PVC pipe to it with a screw cap as a clean out.
It is the lid and clamp from the barrel I purchased from US Plastics for my separator collection bin. I still use a shortened plastic bag inside of the DC. When I am ready to blow the filter down, I remove the lid, pull the bag down and then blow the filter out. When the dust settles, I remove the bag and empty the collected fines.
Steve.
That is a good idea about just cutting the bag smaller because there is no reason to have a full sized bag hanging around. Does that lid fit tight or did you modify it. Also what size container is it from. I am going to try and get it by itself if possible.
Here is a link to the barrel I purchased.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/search.aspx?search=74158&page=1 (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/search.aspx?search=74158&page=1)
I taped the bag to the DC ring because I was getting some leakage. The lid is not modified at all. I did have to drill a hole in the clamp to move the pivot point of the handle by about a 1/2" to allow the band that came on the barrel to fit my DC. The Lid does not seal tightly to the bottom of the DC ring. I count on the plastic bag to prevent leakage.
I think that you could accomplish the same thing with a plywood or MDF disc. It could be clamped to the DC ring with spring clamps similar to what Chuck Lentz used on the lid of his separator.
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz188/SawSucker/5GalSideInMobile.jpg
Steve
That is a good point. Cheaper as well and probably will provide sound deadening. I believe the bag is the loudest part on the system right now. If I can make the seal air tight around the opening I will forgot the bag entirely and put a clean out into the center of the disc. That way I can periodically knock the fines out of filter while having a shop vac hooked up to the clean out line and have an almost maintenance free system.
I will do some before an after pics/videos to document it. Hopefully this will quiet it down without impacting performance. We will see.
I ended up rolling the bag into a ball and then put a thick zip tie on it....it hangs slightly under the metal and off the floor..out of the way. It has considerably reduced the noise because it does not allow air to swirl around and create turbulence.
Wow. What a great write up. Thank you for sharing. Your setup looks fantastic. ;D
UPDATE:
Just wanted to give an update sine this has been in usage fore quite some time now.
First off, I have changed my mind about rolling the bag (rolling it up with a zip tie or capping the bottom) because after using it like that I found that while it decreased sound output...it also was hard to tell when my can was full and push bypass chips into the filter rather than drop them in the bag.
So the bag now freely hangs, and in hindsight has become very useful. When I am in production mode...if I fill up the can, I do not like to stop until I am done with that run. So the excess chips just go into the bag. The con to it is I eventually have to change the bag, but it is usually a 20:1 ration of cans to bag changes. I have at least 100+ can changes at this point and it has held up fine.
Thanks to all of you out there that have given feedback. If you like this series I have been working on some other cool builds as well.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtkFlqdY9x6pq8EDk1RGIhQ
Jason
Wetland Wood Works