J. Phil Thien's Projects

HM, as you found out, there were a couple of things that help.  As DBhost pointed out, and you corrected, you need some space between the inlet and the bottom baffle.  One thing I did on my inlet pipe was to take it to the band saw and cut it off 1/2" above the top horizontal of the inlet.  It left me with sloping inlet, and I used my jigsaw set at the approximate (well eyeballed) angle of the slope when cutting the inlet opening into the top baffle.  Some work with a rasp took care or any binding and a fair amount of hot melt glue took care of any discrepancies.  This gave me a much more angled entry into the top. 

I used an angled (all this was 4" stuff) dust port (Woodcraft - 4" Universal Fitting Item #144654) over the inlet, and this allowed me to clear the bottom of my 50-760 (YA 50-760 build), and this looked to be a smoother entry than just using a 90 elbow.  That said, as much as possible I will do top hat builds from now on to eliminate bends and the standoffs between the top and the bottom of the baffle, since if I use it to pick up shavings from hand planes and off the lathe, they now have a tendency to catch on anything in the air stream.

I know this is an older post, but I've seen my mistake of butting the bottom of the baffle to inlet made by others in newer posts, and hopefully the mods you, dbhost, and others to get the inlet off of the bottom baffle may need to be emphasized.  Not a problem for just dust collection, but a definite hangup when sucking up shavings (Obviously, I'm too lazy to just pick them up with a broom and dustpan).  I know from experience when the shavings start piling up at the inlet, they are getting sucked up into the dust collector and jamming as well in the body of the dust collector. 

When I get around to getting another section of all thread (the originals have been cut too short to drop the bottom), I'll leave them long enough to play with trying to find the best height for them to drop into the bottom baffle cutout.
JT

Don, absolutely stellar job on the shop and on the side input.  Another good use of a bandsaw circle cutting jig.  I've been overthinking the whole 5" / 6" for too long for my 50-760, and as you say 5" fittings are way too hard to come by and pricey to boot.

Once again, terrific job.

JT 

Yes, indeed it does look simple and easy to place on the top baffle!  Looks like he found a quick solution.

I knew there was a reason not to seal all my leaks  :D.

Good job on that air tight construction, and tell us how his pressure relief valve works, just in case I get ambitious and start getting serious about sealing everything tight.  Since half the time I just stick a coupler into the bellows end of a 4" SD pipe, I don't have to worry about implosions. ;D

Quote from: Chuck Lenz on April 30, 2011, 12:36:45 PM

Quote from: tool_fool on April 28, 2011, 03:32:08 PM
I bought a Delta tin 5" to 4" reducer a couple years ago before I got distracted.  It was smaller than the original Delta 50-760's stock  5" to 4" Y reducer, but still did not allow much room for a 30g metal can, so I trimmed it a bit with tin snips and still had to replace the 30 g can with a 20 g can.  Now, plenty of room.  

I searched online for the same Delta reducer I currently have, but all I found is an apparently taller plastic version:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=pd_rhf_s_1?ie=UTF8&search-alias=blended&keywords=delta%205%204%20reducer

With respect to an internal baffle within the 50-760 DC, I'm still wondering about design and efficacy - at a loss.  Anybody have pictures or a description?  I'm misssing something.
Thx.  

tf

On the 50-760 that I'm useing I didn't use a reducer between the separator and the blower, I left it at 5". As far as mounting a baffle inside a 50-760, because of the unique blower houseing / bag mount it would pose to be a challenge, especially if you use the internal bag ring to fasten the lower bag, like I do.

Every once in a while, when I'm pulling long shavings from the inside of the 50-760 after hand planing a board, I want to fill up some of the peculiar "hollows" in the body, but I still like the idea of the separator being in front of the DC, so I've never considered trying to retrofit the baffle.  If I ever cut over to 5", I definitely will try to arrange it so that I have a top hat design with a side input and a wider drop in hopes the shavings will have a better chance to "settle".

I do need to add about another inch to the lower support posts to keep the long stuff from trapping under the inlet, but I'm very pleased with Phil's design and how well it works.  I'm going to do another one for a 6 gallon Jason's deli pickle bucket that looks but doesn't smell like a unused paint bucket with just a little more capacity, and put a shop vac on a mobile platform to take care of some of my 2 1/2 inch sanding chores.

JT

Quote from: Rob Faucett on July 05, 2010, 08:32:00 PM
Is the goal to empty the "lower bag" less often or clean the filter less often?  Or both ("pre-impeller")?

All of the above and to keep stuff out of the impeller.  I use it for floor sweeping at times, and hence pickup chips, pieces of cutoffs, and I feel it keeps it out of the impeller.  Garbage can cheaper than new impellers, although they are robust.

JT

Unfortunately, those long fine shavings (BTW congradulations on those) are so long that they tend to catch and hang on everything they can.  Mine have a nasty habit of stretching out and getting hung on the middle on the posts in the baffle, into any crevice, and in wind up in my filter bag and the poly bag on my Delta 50-760.

When I get around to it, I will try a couple of things to help and try to collect them better. 
1. Leave about an 1 1/2" between the bottom baffle and the inlet elbow to keep them from hanging on the bottom of the inlet.  I did not leave enough room down there in my build.

2. I might try to put a baffle to try and direct them around the inlet elbow, but much better I would think is to eliminate the inlet elbow and go to a side mount and get rid of the obstruction of the inlet elbow which I believe would be the best solution.

3. Possibly try a smaller radius inner baffle cutout diameter to see if those long shavings will drop.
4. Stream line the posts (using all thread at the moment), or use a slicker surface like a small diameter pvc pipe.

If someone has tried some of these, maybe they can save me some time on what works better than others.

Bridger, as someone who has a collection of old woodworking equipment, who got very tired of a very dusty and lately damp basement, I have searched the web often and long to find better ways of modifying my equipment to collect dust, and am still looking.  With an old craftsman contractor table saw (incra fence however), that was never designed for dust collection but now has a "Big Gulp" pan sitting under it and is doing pretty good at collecting now, a old 6" jointer that spews shavings everywhere, but I'll fix that next time I start using it, a old RAS, that now has a collection box behind it, and sanders, etc, I too think that folks that are rolling their own dust collection might find this very much on topic.

Perhaps Phil might consider opening a section for just those types of discussions and pointers to DIY dust collection that works.  I find that having to go through 50 to 100 different sites, just to find very good collection mods gets rather tiresome at times, especially the dummy sites that seem to have good topics, but are just crawlers that basically advertise.  Now, after putting this out there, I definitely need to reestablish a pay-pal account, and send some money Phil's way  ::)!!!!

Biowood, I built my 50-760 with a pre-separator sitting under the inlet, but just for you  ;D, I pulled my bag to see the inside.  Not a pretty picture from the standpoint of trying to put the baffe into the 760.  For one, the bottom ring is indented about an inch from the sides, so it would seem to me that a lot would still be in suspension trying to find it's way to the 240* drop zone.  Two, Delta did not make the filter area circular as it butts against the circular ring of the input area, so the turbulence in the side opposite the blowing action would be considerable and I found some shavings and dust in that area, so it will definitely build up there, and yes I believe you would have to put a vane there, and for that matter I believe that you might have to vane the entire section out to the bag ring to get a "wall" for the dust and shaving to slow down against and drop into the bag.  So, you still have to make two baffle sections, the bottom one with the 240* drop zone, and the top to restrict the airflow into the filter.  The top one would have the inlet to the filter, and I believe that the circular inlet would have to extend a couple of inches down.  Now, since I don't do this, nor did I want to do it, I would rely on others that have made this type of mod to their systems and try to find information from them to understand the airflow needed for a baffle in the filter / bag area. 

You can find my setup in the topic http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=277.0, "YA Delta 50-760 Baffle Implementation".  When I pulled the bag from mine today, there was some shavings and dust in the area that you are getting buildup, but not a huge collection, so as a pre-separator, I'm very happy with my implementation.  The biggest mistake I made was in having the bottom of the baffle butted up against the inlet elbow.  I will correct that one of these days by dropping the bottom another 1 1/2", so that shavings don't hang up on the elbow, since I pulled out all my hand planes and did a major rework and sharpening, they now have a tendency to create nice long shavings, that hang on just about anything they can wrap themselves around.

  It was far simplier for me to cut off the brace to center a garbage can under the DC inlet, and build it into the can. I also reversed the stand, so that the platform is under the garbage can, rather than under the bag.  If the bag ever needs supports (Perhaps in a couple of years, given the amount of material that collects there), I'll just put a wooden shelf there. Very little was lost by doing that, and if I every feel like I need the support, I'll just make a wooden brace for that area curved to allow the can to sit under the inlet.  I also didn't want "stuff" getting into the impeller.  I believe that I still have all the benefits, don't have to pull the collection bag from the  DC, same mobile foot print, as Im currently a dragger of the DC from place to place, and have the convenience of not having to deal with popping the annoying bag holder, even though it really isn't that hard.

At any rate, best of luck with your build.  Sorry that I couldn't really be of  more assistance!

George, I didn't try that on mine, since I needed support for the inlet on the top, and figured the can lid might not be quite strong enough, with supporting the bottom ring, and the inlet, plus complicating the cutoff of the elbow that I used.  Are you going to put the can directly under the housing on the mobile stand like a couple of us did? 

If you did that, there would be a direct connection from the 5" collor on the DC, to the can lid which should help fix the lid in place.  Just put some of weather stripping on the inside if you do use the lid to ensure a good seal.  The good thing about it would be that you could always just insert a MDF top or whatever in the lid if it turns out to be a little flimsy.  Just make sure that the outtake has enough length into the lid to compensate if you needed to do that mod.

I'm thinking if I went to 5" I would want a side inlet as well. 

Perhaps someone who has tried using the lid will chime in as well.

Quote from: vawoodworker84 on January 27, 2010, 09:07:24 AM
As an update, after completing a couple of projects, I just had to empty a 3/4 full trash can for the first time. The lower bag of the DC may have had an inch or two of material. I am a HAPPY camper with this! I used a garden watering can to wet down the material in the trash can before popping the lid on. I then delivered it to the dump - no fuss, no inhaled dust! The moist dust didn't even cloud up when I poured it out into the brush bin at the recycle center. A BIG improvement over the last bag emptying episode where I inhaled more dust in 5 minutes than the months of woodworking that created the mess.

Thanks to Phil for this site and all of the folks here for sharing their ideas!

I'm going to have to remember that watering trick.  I want a topper too, but it'll mean cutting down a drum to get it under my 50-760 and to have either 5" or 6" pipework (not to mention actually organizing the shop so I can use it  ::) ).  Right now mobility is higher on the list.

Ditto on the Kudu's for Phil and the site.  There's more value on this site for great penny pinching dust collection than many many others.

Quote from: Todd on January 27, 2010, 01:33:20 PM
Nice set-up.  I'm also in Atlanta and thankfully haven't had any leaky absement issues yet!?   ???  I also have the 50-760 as well and I built the baffle for my shop vac and it works great.  I need to do this for my dc.  How easy is it to remove the trash can.  What size can did you use?  I bought one from an Ace hardware that was closing at 50% off. ;D 

Todd, It's very easy to remove the trashcan, I just loosen the two clamp screws on the fitting between the housing and the length of Sch 40 pipe that is the output from the baffle and slide it down.  There is enough clearance that the can will slide out easily.  You did notice that I removed the brace from the platform side and that my can sits on the small platform.  Just closed my eyes (no not really) and took that sucker off.  The can is the 30 Gallon from HD or Lowes, and just made sure I got one that wasn't banged up and that the lip was relatively round.  Good show on a 50% discount from ACE.

Quote from: Todd on January 27, 2010, 01:33:20 PM
Also for the single smooth sided hardboard, I used 1/4 mdf that I bought from HD and it works great!

Do you move your dc around to each tool or do you have a piping system?  I need to look at how the cyclone attaches to the 5" dc port?

Right now I move it from station to station, or move the equipment to it.  Mobility has both disadvantages and advantatages  8).  The 4" Clay to S&D pipe connector Flexible Clay Pipe Coupling (Home Depot SKU 688193), is large enough on the clay end to fit over the 5" nipple from the housing pretty loosely and over the 4" Sch40 Pipe perfectly, PTB-Delta Connection-1 pic above shows the gasket in the raised position.  PTB-Delta Connection-2 shows it about 1/2 down the pipe from the baffle.  Search for Brian Marks  in the threads.  He has a great closeup of the fitting or go to the HD website and search on the SKU.

The planer stays boxed until I get it on a mobile base >:(.  I had to make a promise to myself that everything has to be able to move until the water issue is decently resolved.  Wasn't much of a problem until this year.

Quote from: dbhost on January 25, 2010, 03:11:10 PM
Nice build!

FWIW, if you ever want to scale up to 6", you should be able to get a 5" to 6" coupler like you did with the 4" to 5" and then simply change the fittings out on the lid...

I like how you sloped the ramps. I have wondered if that would help, but I have taken to making my baffles with hardboard, pretty sure sloping that is pointless...

Thanks for the compliment on the build as well as the efforts you have made to help others put a baffle together. 

I would have like to do a 5" but that takes some planning to source the parts.  Right now the water that leaks into the basement (record rainfalls this year in Atlanta) requires everything on wheels in the basement for mopping up, so the 50-760 is perfect and the 4" with an elbow seems to do OK hanging inside the garbage can.  If I went to 5 or 6 I'd want to go to a side intake to keep the cyclonic swirl efficient allowing the dust to drop down as it slows against the sides of the can (or so it seems to me).  There isn't enough headroom to put a "Topper" as VAwoodworker84 did and still have an unmodified mobile cart (no headroom in the basement without going to a Wynn cartridge Filter) or an unmodified drum (cutting the height down), as I need at least 3" to 4" for the riser out of the baffle plus another 1 1/2 inches for the nipple from the housing, and at least 1/2" of clearance to allow the seal to slide down to pull out the can.  The Behrans can is 27", and there is 9 1/8" of clearance between the top of the can and the housing.

I would tend to agree with Bill Pentz, that there doesn't seem to be much sense in going to 6" when the 1 1/2 HP on the 50-760 and the 5" nipple would be a mismatch, but it was tempting because it could be used if I upgraded and parts are so very much more easy to find in PVC (other than the dust ports or lack thereof on our equipment at the price range that I can afford).

It would have been nice to find a 1/4" hardboard slick two sides but so far I haven't found a readily accessible source, so ramping the 5/8" baffle seemed to be a reasonable thing to do. 

For the moment at least I'm happy with the current setup ;D.

After lurking at various DC sites, I finally was lead to Phil's Baffle, and decided it was the way to go based on how well it was working for everyone.  But I still agonized over the 5" / 4", BP maximized air flow until I finally just decided to go with a 4" implementation until I do some real layout work for the shop in my basement.  So here is the interim solution, the good and the bad. 

I liked the direct connection used by Brian Marks, but didn't have fast enough access to his nifty drum, but used it at my starting point.  Picked up threaded rod, had 5/8" particle board and couldn't get 1/4" double sided slick hardboard easily enough.  Had a 2 ft section of Schedule 40 pipe and a Schedule 40 long 90 degree elbow.  Found the clay pipe to drainage rubber connector used by others, and a Rockler/Woodcraft universal angled connector.  Used dbhosts instructions for the most part, but now wished I hadn't made the tolerances as tight as my pictures will show (wanting to use as much of that Behran's Garbage Can as possible, no side collapsion problem using the Delta 50-760 so far). 

To transition the input, I cut off one end of the elbow leaving it angled and cut the hole in the top for the intake after transferring the new skewed end as a pattern and angling the cut on the two elongated ends.  Any adjustments were made with a rounded surform rasp.  Cut a section of the Sch 40 pipe as the outake, and used hot glue to join the schedule 40 pipe and elbow to the baffle lid which made a very solid connection.  Used a straight surform rasp to level the elbow to the top.  Used silicon to join the slanted universal after aligning it for a smooth transition to the elbow.

Performance so far is very very good, with only a the finest of dust making it into the bag.  Unlike Mark, I just cut that nasty side support off, figuring that if I need to reinforce it a new handle of wood will do quite nicely.  I believe that when I get my planer up and going that I'll have to drop the bottom of the baffle at least an inch to avoid hangups of shavings, or at least fill in some of the gaps.  For the moment, experiments dumping everything into thebaffle has sent it into the garbage can.  Yet to be done is putting some tape over the handles of the can on the inside, weather stripping to optimize the seal ( it seems very good without it however), and in general making the can as air tight as possible.

Thanks to everyone contributing to this site.  I will be spreading the word as I have seen so many people just resorting to one of the pre-made can lids when they could be doing far better.