J. Phil Thien's Projects

I know your post has been ignored, sorry I just noticed it, and chances are you aren't even checking back now... But here goes in case you are looking...

#1. The 4HP Harbor Freight dust collector is no longer in the HF catalog at all.
#2. I have to assume based on what I see in the photos, that it is 3 4" inlets going through that black adapter to a 6" (maybe even 7") inlet at the impeller housing.
#3. The purchase price of that collector is appealing, but add the shipping fee in and it's not such a bargain any more.
#4. Not sure without inspecting it up close and personal, but if you are handy with metal working, you could bypass the manifold or whatever they call the assembly that connects the impeller housing to the inlet rings, and connect straight to one inlet ring, side spun so the intake faces down, and pull straight from a Thien style separator that way.

Now having said all that. The HF 2HP unit is known, and reasonably trustworthy...

If it were me, looking for 3+ HP options, I would start cruising Craigslist for used. Dual Bagger Grizzly and Delta collectors come up from time to time in the sub $250.00 range...

I have been running my HF #97869 2HP dust collector with the Wynn canister through a side inlet Thien style separator based on a 55 gallon drum with 5" in / outlets for the last couple of years. The 5" splits to 2 4" lines, one goes to the bottom side of the tools, the other goes to the top, so that I get dust collection from say the belly pan, and blade guard of the table saw etc... at the same time.

I have a project going on presently where I am taking the sheetrock in my shop down to run power and insulate the walls, so this gives me a chance to redo the whole DC setup. Which leaves me with a few nagging questions...

#1. I do know I want to side flip the motor / impeller housing. Is it better to keep it mobile, or should I just wall mount that sucker like so many of you have?
#2. Since the output from the impeller is 5", is it even worth it to upsize the main run to 6" or should I just leave the 5" in place?

The only areas I am disappointed in my dust collection are sort of dead obvious...

#1. Lathe. I just haven't figured out how to make that work at all. It is okay for sanding, as I tend to work from the bottom side when sanding, but when cutting, it's a lost cause.
#2. Sliding Miter Saw. For two reasons. The first being it's a sliding miter saw, they are pain to collect from. The second, and most important, I don't have the proper hood built yet, I am building a new miter saw workstation with a nice hood and DC during part of this power / insulation project. So miter saw collection WILL improve. But I expect it to be far from perfect.
#3. Shop Footprint of the machine and separator. Side flipping the impeller and placing the separator immediately underneath the impeller housing will fix that and eliminate several bends, and several feet of unneeded flex line which should improve my air flow somewhat.

So what do you guys think?

Side flip, cart, or wall?
Stay with 5" or upsize to 6"?

I have no interest in this other than to promote Phil's baffle / separator design. There is a member at http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f23/side-inlet-drum-thien-baffle-free-good-home-39132/#post348639 that is giving away his separator as he has gone to an internal baffle setup.

Quote from: Don_Z on October 03, 2011, 07:05:49 AM
It's a 9.75" impeller.

Depends on the specific model. My #97869 impeller measures out at 10.5"

How is it then that Lee Styron can make a profit with his Shark Guards? They are an excellent, small shop built product that is IMHO second to none. And I am relatively certain that he isn't farming his production out to some sampan factory in China.

Yes I know he charges more than $75.00 for his guards, but they at least to me, appear to be far more complex than an impeller for a dust collector...

Quote from: jussi on May 16, 2011, 10:30:43 PM

1.  Is the center of the baffle in line with the center of the lid?

Yes.

Quote
2.  Where is the intake port located with respect to the edge of the rabbeted portion of the lid?

I am not sure I totally understand the question, so let me answer both ways I read this. You want the intake port close enough as it were to the side so that you can get things spinning, but not so close as to make the edge of the lid weak... A side inlet in the can is better due to fewer bends to get in / out of the separator inducing less resistance.

The drop slot should end just before the intake, either port or elbow...

Quote
3.  Is there a necessary distance between the lid and the baffle or is just enough so the elbow clears?

I believe it depends on your configuration, but generally speaking 1" below the baffle to allow stringy stuff to pass is sufficient.

Quote
4.  Does the elbow have to be positioned in a certain direction?

As long as it follows the side of the can, not really, you can go clockwise or counter clockwise. I have done both on different builds.

Quote
5.  Would there be any significant advantage in making the rabbeted portion of the lid a bit smaller than the ID or the can and then using those foam sealants to fill the gap to ensure a tighter fit?

Not if your rabbet is tight enough. Mine will crush the can if I let it...

Quote
6. If you switched from a metal can to drum barrel (or other container with a tighter lid) did you see significant changes?

I have set up both. Let me give you a listing of the Thien separators I have built for myself, and either for, or with family and friends....

2.5" top load (the way Phil published) on a 20 gallon steel trash can.
4" top load on a 30 gallon steel trash can (Built this one with a friend for his shop.)
2.5" side inlet on a 30 gallon fiber drum. (because I had the drum and I wanted to).
2.5" side inlet on a 30 gallon steel drum. (replaced the fiber drum, long story)
4" top load on a 55 gallon plastic drum.
5" side inlet modification to that same 55 gallon plastic drum.

I found no performance benefit or hit from going between drums and trash cans. However there is a LARGE performance improvement changing from top load to side inlet.  I also noticed a large suction improvement going between 4" to 5". I can not compare the 2.5" models (shop vac) to the 4 and 5" models (dust collectors). I do NOT recommend a fiber drum for humid / damp environments though. That one died QUICKLY. We redid that one with a steel drum, and I gave it to my brother in law to use in his body shop. It now serves to separate bondo and welding slag dust from sanding and grinding operations... It works very well for that application!

I shudder to think of a number. It should be high to say the least...

Just like with knocking out production volumes in woodworking, it should be all in setting up the jigs though. If you can knock them out for say $25.00 a piece your cost, then sell them for $50.00 to $75.00 each...

If you can guess, I am taking a W.A.G. here...

That's a fair question...

Considering the HF DC runs for, and let's average it because Harbor Freight sales are all over the place these days, but let's say $150.00. I would think something along the lines of $50.00 to $75.00 would be in the range for that...

Not sure myself. I would be interested in knowing though. A guy with some sheet metal skills and time on his hands could make a few bucks knocking 12" impellers for HF DCs out as long as they were well made and affordable...

I have previously posted RE: slipping 4" flex hose over 4" S&D. The issue that is really at question is just how 4" is your 4"? I used PSI 4" flex hose, and it slips over 4" S&D fine... I also used 5" Grizzly flex line, the cheap stuff as I was making a VERY short connection, and I had to use HVAC crimpers to reduce the size of my 5" HVAC fitting in order for it to go over...

Oh, FWIW, I also sealed the connection there with the aluminum HVAC tape to keep things from slipping. I initially tried screws, but they just pulled through the hose like it wasn't there...

If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the PSI clear hose on the 5" connection. When I upsize to 6" I will likely go with that PSI hose...

That is just too sweet. My side inlet is WAY rougher than that, bad enough I want to redo it... I am going to copy your method for sure when I step up to 6"!

That's a nice build. What I don't understand is why you went to all the trouble of moving the impeller up, and yet you stayed with a top inlet on the separator. This one is aching for a side inlet....

They both do the same thing, get the air in, spinning around the outside of the vessel near the drop slot. The difference is...

A. Top inlet is a LOT easier to build.
B. Side inlet eliminates 2 90 degree bends, and thus the restrictions those bends put in the system.

While the side inlet is harder to build, and somewhat nerve racking cutting into a barrel for example, the results are well worth it.

That looks like an interesting setup. Any problems with having your exhaust hose that long and bendy?

clayandnancy,

Yes what you propose will work, but a word of warning about the HF 2 HP DC, there have been several models and there appear to be different size impellers. I know the one in my shop has an 11.5" impeller, older models are reported to have impellers as small as 10". The 11.5 @ 2HP should be sufficient for 6" ducting, but just barely. The Grizzly that Chuck mentioned I believe is a 12.5" impeller model, which that 1" added really makes a difference in surface area, and total CFM @ SP numbers... While I like my HF DC well enough, I chose to stick with 5" split to 2 4" lines, one to the top side of my tools, the other to the bottom. Moves more than enough air, especially with the Wynn filter removing the restrictive OE bag (the HF bag for being so coarse a filter, is REALLY restrictive!)