J. Phil Thien's Projects

So I am going to try to at least touch base daily, or every other day until this is done. Progress for today is...

Not a dang thing. Been working my paid job, and a little bit under the weather. I ended up with shingles, and I thought it was mostly done, today has reminded me it still f*#(ing hurts...

So first things first...

I have the 30 gallon steel trash can vac separator on a shelf, needs to go. Going to bring that in the house as I am about to hit a bunch of drywall with my RO sander...

Pull the shelf down, set aside.

Pull the 55 gallon drum, disconnect. I am gonna cut my baffle in the driveway anyway...

Once the existing separators are moved, I can then get to the DC... But I have more wiggling to do.

Pull the small air compressor from under the DC, then rotate the DC and stand 90 degrees so I can...

Roll mechanics tool box to the side so I can unplug the DC... Yeah, there is that little detail.

Still waiting for Wen impeller to ship.

Pull DC apart, and scuff with fairly high grit sandpaper.

wipe down with alcohol wipes.

Tape off parts that don't need paint, and shouldn't be removed,

Lay down cardboard surface as painting backer.

Spray with Rigid / Wen orange. Not trying to copy, I just LOVE bright orange in the shop. The HF cheap Chinese green is disgusting.

Let it cure.

Hopefully by then new impeller should be in.

Swap in new impeller.

Assemble except separator ring.

Cut new separator ring.

Futz with angles and figure out risers.

Cut risers.

Mount risers, cartridge filter, and then baffle.

Finally put on catch bag.

Attach 5" to dual 4" adapter.

Test. I have a big ol pile of various dust and shavings that would work great for test media.

Assuming test successful reposition everything, leaving old separator out.

Take some pretty pics and post here.

So that's it. Wish me luck!

@Phil

Sorry I have been out so long. Life happened ya know...

I am so sorry to hear that some jacknut is stealing your generously shared idea.

I'm no lawyer or anything like that, nor did I spend the night in a Holiday In Express, but if there is anything I can do to help with this issue. please let me know.

@Vaughn

I know it's been a LONG time, and you likely don't check here often if at all any more. But I just wanted to touch base on this.

I went as you may recall, with a side inlet 55 gallon drum separator and now need to downsize a bit.

I am going with your idea here. I was hoping I could get more info on how you made the standoffs.

I figure I will get the angles down, then chuck it in the lathe and drill the holes in the dowel material

The concept of a separator is to allow the debris laden air to slow down enough to drop its load, and prevent it from picking the load back up before moving on to the filter. The problem with hair is it has a very low mass, and large surface area, kind of like a feather does, thus getting hair to drop out a moving airstream is VERY difficult.

From the photos, the dusttopper looks like it is a rip off of the Thien separator concept.  I don't see how it would be any better or worse than a home made Thien separator.

I am trying to improve airflow in my DC and condense my workshop as I am going to move from my garage workshop that is 18x20, and into a shed workshop that is 12x16, I need to downsize!

My current rig is an older HF 2HP DC with a Wynn 35A, and I go out of the DC via a 5" hose to a 55 gallon blue poly drum separator with a side inlet.

I want to remove the poly drum.

So plan at this point...

#1. Upgrade the pitiful stock HF impeller with a Wen impeller. Already on order.
#2. Build separator for mounting in the ring of the DC.
#3. Move my 5" connection direct to the DC bypassing the drum entirely.

This begs the one BIG question. How do I mount both the separator, AND the 35A filter?

I am assuming the 35a more or less has the one method of the turnbuckles to mount, so that leaves how to mount the separator.

So if you have done this, could I bother you to chime in and post some ideas for mounting? I am thinking about screws through the ring into the separator, and one or two threaded bars to stand off the "loose end"

Thank you for posting up this information, particularly on the Rikon impeller. Not sure if you are still checking this post, but if you are, did you have to provide a serial # on the DC to get the impeller. I have heard they ask for that...

I've had the HF 2HP DC for at least 6 years now with a 55 gallon side inlet Thien separator, and 5" in / out... My hopes / plans for it are...

#1. Larger Impeller.
#2. Upfitted intake plate to 6" from 5".
#3. Replace the 55 gallon plastic drum (horribly heavy!) I want to go with a...
#4. 30 gallon trash can Thien Cyclone separator. Forget the side inlet. Too hard to work with. 6" in, 6" out.
#5. Replace my main trunks from dual 4" to single 6"...

Quote from: jgarner101351 on March 08, 2016, 01:33:11 PM
I am going to modify my HF dust collector based on the Thein baffle. I plan to exhaust my >5 micron dust outside via a dryer vent set up rather than using a cartridge filter. Has anyone done this and is there a problem with this as long as I knock out the big stuff (saw dust, wood chips, wood slivers etc.)? I don't want anything but 5 micron or smaller dust going through my DC impeller anyway. I was working on ways to do this and researching when I found the world of info on the Thein baffle and HF DC modifications. Thanks Phil and all you other folks that have used Phil's baffle design and so graciously shared your experience, photos, plans, materials lists and so forth.

The biggest problem aside from adding dangerous sized particles to the outside air and contaminating it (we are trying to clear the air right?) that I can see behind unfiltered outside venting is you will be moving heated or cooled air away from your workspace at 1K + CFM. You'll never be able to effectively heat or cool your shop making it, depending on your climate of course, a nasty, miserable place to work. I wouldn't (and didn't) go that route for just that reason.

I figured this crowd might be interested in this. I make a shelf that I am using to hose the trash can separator for the shop vac. I had to get it out from under the table saw, and it works great.

https://youtu.be/o-UHasKSSwQ

Quote from: TX_Lenador on March 05, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
This is a 2 HP Grizzly flipped and using the Grizzly collector ring as the separator. The inlet to the separator is 5" and all duct out to the tools are 5" with any reduction done after the blast gate. The inlet to the blower is 6" and outlet to the filter is 5". More details are on my post located here http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?topic=1054.0.

Now that's an approach I had never considered!

Very cool build.

Okay guys and gals. I am functional right now, so I am not in a huge hurry to make a decision, so  I figure this would be a good time to take a look at various builds.

Has anyone done a side flip stand for a HF 2HP DC with a Thien Top Hat separator underneath it, preferrably on a 30 gallon galvanized trash can? I am looking for a 5" in, 5" out kind of rig. What are the critical dimensions to deal with? Can a can liner be used with this setup to make cleanup easier?

Show some pics, I'd like to get ideas how you pulled it off... Thanks.

I am intentionally bumping this back up. It seems that Top Hat conversions are all the rage these days, but honestly, they suck up too much vertical space. I am wanting to build a side inlet separator from a 30 gallon can and this write up should make it MUCH easier...

I am working on maximizing my shop space, which means redesign of my dust collection, including the separator.

I want to do a side flip conversion to my HF DC, and build a side inlet separator based on a 30 gallon galvanized trash can.

The biggest question is what is the best way to build that side inlet? I was thinking of doing the "box" route with a 5" port, that way I don't have to worry about cobbling the stove pipe into a funny shape...

I don't want to add the extra height of a top hat, so this seems best to me. Has anyone else done this? Any pics?

I am wondering what the easiest way to set up a Thien style separator with a side inlet on a 30 gallon galvanized trash can. I have a HF 2HP DC with a Thien separator with a side inlet in a 55 gallon drum, and the drum itself is just unwieldy...

I have seen the Top Hat type builds and they look, interesting.  But how time consuming is the build actually?

QuoteYes, the two 4" runs work because you have one choked down.  That keeps the cross sectional area of the two 4" legs close to the area of the 5" main which in turn maintains the air velocity.  Open both 4" legs and you will start to see a loss of efficiency in the waste pickup, and the type of waste will have bearing on how bad the performance suffers.

Agreed to a limited extent. I choke off the upper for certain tools, lower for others. Still messing with it overall.

But yes, it seems to work best with 5" split to a 4" on one end, and 2.5" feeding the other port...

I would bet I would probably be better off necking down closer to the main trunk line, but the fittings are a PITA to find...

For what it's worth, I am running the 5x4x4 splitter into 2 4" runs. It works fine, but typically for example, I only open the blast gate for the bottom of the table saw half way. It keeps the bottom half which is enclosed anyway, from building up with sawdust, and the blade guard keeps plenty clear of dust... Router table same way since the lower is enclosed. The whole idea is if I breathe it, I need more air flow. If not, I want just enough airflow to keep the machinery from getting jammed up...