Yep! I saw this post late last night while browsing through most of them. Thanks for adding it to this thread... this is exactly what I was looking for!
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Thien Cyclone Separator Lid Discussion / Re: Modded single stage dust collectors/shop-vac
July 08, 2009, 09:32:40 PM #2
Thien Cyclone Separator Lid Discussion / Modded single stage dust collectors/shop-vac
July 07, 2009, 10:26:26 PM
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Phil Thien <phil@cgallery.com> wrote:
Do me a favor and post this at the forum:
Phil Thien (phil@cgallery.com)
414/963-6336
414/963-6338 (Fax)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ananda Debnath
To: phil@cgallery.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:41 PM
Subject: [SkipSpamFilter] Modded single stage dust collectors
SkipSpamFilter
Hi Phil,
I've been trying to follow discussions on cyclones and lid-based separators for a while and my head's spinning a little now :)
Like many, I am a hobbyist WW'er and at the moment, just don't have the space in my two car garage to spend money on and install a serious Bill Pentz type big impeller type DC. I have a Ridgid 16 gallon wet/dry vac (WD1665) that I just bought a new HEPA filter for (and on the box it says that the filter is even washable). I also have a 3M darth-vader like respirator, that I just find too cumbersome to use all the time... especially in Texas summers.
There are a few things that confuse me and I'd love to read your opinions on:
1. Both cyclone and lid based designs seem to rely on spinning dust laden air tangentially so that heavier dust is thrown out as if in a centrifuge and loses momentum and settles to the bottom. The confusion for me here is, what exactly does the conical shape of a cyclone do differently compared to the shape of a circular trash can, which at best has only a very slight slope to the side?
2. In cyclone designs, there seems to be talk of a 'neutral vane'(?) which seemed quite intuitive to me... "encourage" the air stream to corkscrew down in a helical along the circumference so as to impart a downward momentum to the dust, and also minimize the turbulence caused by the entering air-stream by minimizing it's "collision" with the air-stream that's just traversed along the circumference of the cylindrical portion at the top of the cone. The confusing thing here to me is that in your baffle based design, you seem to have a "negative" neutral vane type structure... i.e. the vane portion is actually empty space (the cut-out along the circumference of the baffle), and the empty space, is actually a solid partition
In short I'm having trouble visualizing how exactly the baffle based solution works. I can completely understand how it prevents dust that's settled at the bottom, from being sucked back into the vac... but totally unsure how it helps in separating the dust.
A separate question on the baffle design: If I use a tangential intake (as opposed to a lid-based intake), with the intake pipe glued onto the outside tangentially and not sticking inside at all, would the cutout need to go all the way around (instead of the 60 degree uncut portion in your design)?
Lastly, this line in your design page caught my eye:
"I have also modded single-stage dust collectors with my baffle (this allows units with cartridge filters on top to stay cleaner, longer)."
With a traditional 2-stage separator design, the shop-vac's chamber is such a huge waste of space! I'd love to see pictures or notes/ideas on modding a shop-vac so that it's collection chamber can actually be utilized to collect. The ClearVue mini-cyclone setup looks very attractive for the same reason as well - were it not for it's ridiculous price-tag. I'm almost tempted to build my own with oneida's cone and mdf, but I'd love to your ideas on using a baffle design with shop-vacs!
Many thanks again for putting together such an awesome design and notes page! I look forward to reading your reply.
Warn regards,
Ananda
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.384 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2223 - Release Date: 07/07/09 17:54:00
Do me a favor and post this at the forum:
Phil Thien (phil@cgallery.com)
414/963-6336
414/963-6338 (Fax)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ananda Debnath
To: phil@cgallery.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:41 PM
Subject: [SkipSpamFilter] Modded single stage dust collectors
SkipSpamFilter
Hi Phil,
I've been trying to follow discussions on cyclones and lid-based separators for a while and my head's spinning a little now :)
Like many, I am a hobbyist WW'er and at the moment, just don't have the space in my two car garage to spend money on and install a serious Bill Pentz type big impeller type DC. I have a Ridgid 16 gallon wet/dry vac (WD1665) that I just bought a new HEPA filter for (and on the box it says that the filter is even washable). I also have a 3M darth-vader like respirator, that I just find too cumbersome to use all the time... especially in Texas summers.
There are a few things that confuse me and I'd love to read your opinions on:
1. Both cyclone and lid based designs seem to rely on spinning dust laden air tangentially so that heavier dust is thrown out as if in a centrifuge and loses momentum and settles to the bottom. The confusion for me here is, what exactly does the conical shape of a cyclone do differently compared to the shape of a circular trash can, which at best has only a very slight slope to the side?
2. In cyclone designs, there seems to be talk of a 'neutral vane'(?) which seemed quite intuitive to me... "encourage" the air stream to corkscrew down in a helical along the circumference so as to impart a downward momentum to the dust, and also minimize the turbulence caused by the entering air-stream by minimizing it's "collision" with the air-stream that's just traversed along the circumference of the cylindrical portion at the top of the cone. The confusing thing here to me is that in your baffle based design, you seem to have a "negative" neutral vane type structure... i.e. the vane portion is actually empty space (the cut-out along the circumference of the baffle), and the empty space, is actually a solid partition
In short I'm having trouble visualizing how exactly the baffle based solution works. I can completely understand how it prevents dust that's settled at the bottom, from being sucked back into the vac... but totally unsure how it helps in separating the dust.
A separate question on the baffle design: If I use a tangential intake (as opposed to a lid-based intake), with the intake pipe glued onto the outside tangentially and not sticking inside at all, would the cutout need to go all the way around (instead of the 60 degree uncut portion in your design)?
Lastly, this line in your design page caught my eye:
"I have also modded single-stage dust collectors with my baffle (this allows units with cartridge filters on top to stay cleaner, longer)."
With a traditional 2-stage separator design, the shop-vac's chamber is such a huge waste of space! I'd love to see pictures or notes/ideas on modding a shop-vac so that it's collection chamber can actually be utilized to collect. The ClearVue mini-cyclone setup looks very attractive for the same reason as well - were it not for it's ridiculous price-tag. I'm almost tempted to build my own with oneida's cone and mdf, but I'd love to your ideas on using a baffle design with shop-vacs!
Many thanks again for putting together such an awesome design and notes page! I look forward to reading your reply.
Warn regards,
Ananda
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.384 / Virus Database: 270.13.8/2223 - Release Date: 07/07/09 17:54:00
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