J. Phil Thien's Projects

http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=269

it seems the fine dust would have no where to go but through the filter. heres another pic
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=thien+separator&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS477US477&biw=1280&bih=656&tbm=isch&tbnid=HWE9hvmGG5XD9M:&imgrefurl=http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D40958&docid=wAB7zBAxueMTHM&imgurl=http://www.jpthien.com/smf/index.php%253Faction%253Ddlattach%253Btopic%253D166.0%253Battach%253D323%253Bimage&w=640&h=480&ei=O9utUO_qCuSUiALH2IGgBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=99&sig=113293683651611212174&page=2&tbnh=156&tbnw=228&start=20&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:41,s:0,i:214&tx=151&ty=84

i have noticed lately my lower bag was getting more scrubbing and more dust lately, then i realized my filter was covered in fines. but i use my tools a lot, minimum 24 hours a week and it took about a year to need a cleaning.

im changing shops soon out of my garage to an actual woodshop for business, eventually i will go larger blower etc but for now i am trying to maximize my hf thien top hat baffle system.

any thoughts would be great. TIA!

would it be a good idea to add a chimney in the original dust collector ring if i added a top hap separator and not an internal baffle?

if so, how high into the filter? 3" seems what has been decided on before on baffled models.

how low into the bottom bag since there is no baffle in the way? it seems this length on the depth of this chimney pipe would be the dimension that could really have an effect on fine separation, it could have some issues to though...too high and fines would still go to the filter, too low and scrubbing might be worse affecting cfm or ???

lastly, what diameter should the chimney be? ive seen 8"-9.5" on this site in the limited threads with chimney info. im not sure if this is as big of a deal if you stay with a happy median size.

good job, looks like a nice setup. similar to my HF setup. its nice when it all comes together, but more than likely the fine mdf dust is going right into your filter, most separators including cyclones dont do too well catching the fine dust. luckily for me i dont do a ton of mdf work but i do want to build a sanding table which is going to be a challenge to separate. we'll see...

what is the issue with static from the trash can? i have a plastic trash can and havent notice any real issues with is. some dust sticks to the sides a little bit but not enough to get in the way, i hope. im sure now someone is going to tell me otherwise.

is there a impeller size listed anywhere? i didnt see one

well i built my separator with 6" in mind for future use and have a 5" reducer on atm to the stock split 5" to dual 4". im going to upgrade to 6" main trunk directly into the separator down to 4" drops. but my main trunk line is not ceiling height, it is horizontaly mounted at the sepearator height(about 3' high). Ive read this helps suction quite a bit. so i will soon know if this hurts or helps performance, however this is not an exacting test because i will be getting rid of crappy flex hose in lou of rigid pipe which is a major upgrade from what i understand. i bought my hf dc knowing i would get a bigger (which is why i am going 6" main) one in the future as i am a cabinet maker by trade and am strting to grow my business.

as far as how to mount it... mine is mobile now, i never move it. it doesnt move too easily as it is quite heavy and bulky not to mention cumbersum. i did not build a fancy 2x4 cart though with super nice casters, i just modified the hf cart. my motor is above the separator and trashcan respectively. the 2x4 cart didnt fit my space. i am now going to mount it on the wall which will help in changing the trash can and there will be no flex pipe in my new system. fingers crossed...

so what is the fix for turbulence in the bottom bag? mine is pretty wicked once i added the wynn filter.

well its time for another update...and this time it is not all good. you can see in the pic how massive the Grizzly impeller is, and it is made very well. You can also see that unfortunately the vanes are the wrong direction.



the biggest differance between these two impellers besides the obvious size differance is the weight. the Grizzley is probably around 3 times the weight of the harbor freight unit. so now to the bad news, the motor is just not up to the job of the extra weight and size of the impeller. It was drawing over 60 amps on startup with a max of 68! it would run for 5 seconds and start to accelerate but i couldnt keep it on long enough to see if the amperage would level out at an acceptable and stable range. this is running on a 20amp dedicated cicruit in my shop with nothing else running. i didnt feel comfortable switching to a 30amp circuit just to see if the amps would come down, i do have electrical experience being a contractor, and also called up my subcontractor electrician for advice and he advised against this idea as well. so now i am kinda stuck with this impeller as i just installed my weenie 10" impeller.

onto some good news though, i installed a bellmouth as did member "retired02" and i did notice a differance in performance. the amps also tell the same story, i was pulling 9.75 and am now pulling 12.1-12.5! quite an increase if you ask me.

i also altered the inlet of my unit, this might be part of the increase as well. i removed the metal inlet and switched to a plywood inlet on the squirel cage itself. nut the differance is i was able to round over the the edge with roundover bit, it basically made a bellmouth. pretty imteresting results if you ask me.

i'd be interested to see what a "stock" hf unit pulls in the amperage department with the stock 5" inlet and outlets since mine was upgraded to 6" up until the separator downsized to 5" just in case i ever needed to upgrade in the future.

thoughts/criticisms welcome.......

btw i have a grizzly impeller for sale at a discount if anyone can do something with it, hehe

update...the grizzly impeller is on its way, shipped out yesterday, should be here wednesday of next week. i'll be updating both the impeller and the separator at that time. i'll let you all know how it turns out.

btw, i called rikon to see about their impeller on the 2hp units, its only 11" in diameter so not much better than my 10 1/2" which is why i went with the grizzley. maybe thats why rikon's cfm is rated at 1250 as opposed to grizzly's 1550. hmm...

btw...polarys, if you have a part number for that impeller, im sure that would be beneficial towards all of us who have have the HF units. thanks

to add to all the drama...

i just added a wynn filter to my HF DC today and measured before and after amperage numbers. the readings fluttered from 8.9 to 9.3 with the stock felt filter atop, but held much more steady with the new filter at 9.7 to 9.75.

here comes the drama part. i bought my DC for 130 out the door, then add my separator(free) and my filter for 128 shipped, i'm at 258 and still have money left over for a new impeller and propper ducting.

but...if i had to do it over again, i would've probably been more patient and search craigslist longer, there are crazy deals out there for used grizzleys etc...i've seen 2hp 220v units with an upgraded filter and tons of misc ducting for as little as 250 bucks. now thats the way to go, i needed a DC asap however when i bought mine to save my lungs on an mdx(TOXIC) and my crappy HFDC did the trick, and now it definately performs better than new.

i also bought a bellmouth and am going to order a new impeller today. i also am going to take before and after amp readings of each mod since this is the easiest way to check for airflow increase(to get a rough idea of course). stay tuned

so you have essentially 2 separators??? did you notice a loss of suction with the 2nd added? i ask because the small amount of dust that enters my bag after the separator is spinning pretty good. any benefit to adding the baffle inside the DC once there is a pre separator?

does anyone know of anyone who has actually changed the impeller on their hf unit? i cant find that original thread i spoke of in my first post unfortunately. the impeller is in stock at grizzly and i am ready to do it, but i just want to double check the shaft diameter to make sure it fits before i do it.  i cant take my dc apart right now as im using it nonstop lately, which is why now is the right time for me to upgrade. i just ordered the wynn paper filter and a 6" bellmouth for my separator so i should be more efficient already but the impeller would be killer.

so according to the chart, my unflange pipe is restricting the airflow by about 90%? so just by adding a bellmouth, i can increase airflow quite a bit(hopefully 90%)? that would be awesome but seems hard to believe.

where can i get a decent bellmouth in 6"? ive only found penn states(psi), but the radius stops right at the top of where it should transition into the actual pipe. thanks in advance to all.

I found a new impeller in a thread for my dust collector according to a thread on hear, its the grizzly 12 3/4" x 3 1/2" part number P1028Z2010 and they happened to be on back order till may but june or july is more likely according to the lady at grizzly. They also happen to be 110 bucks plus shipping and tax! They were only 80 dollars not too long ago according to that thread.

So i have a couple of questions, since there were so many different versions of the hf dc, how do i know if it will fit first off? My arbor looks to be 3/4". I have a Seco 2hp DC that has a 3phase motor unfortunately:-(  as well with a plastic 12" Impeller but the arbor looks to be 13/16" with a different arbor key so no dice.

Is there anybody else who has a larger Impeller that fits the HF DC? And hopefully it wont costs as much as the grizzly?

Or is there anywhere is to get the grizzly impeller for cheaper?

I just built my seperator with 6" ports so I wouldn't have to build another one in the future and I would like as much air flow as posible, however, its doing really well with my wimpy 10" Impeller. Hehe Any help would be appreciated.