Author Topic: New Impeller for HF DC?  (Read 7925 times)

retired2

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 06:24:46 AM »
I can't speak for the Grizzly impeller, but i know for a fact that the 12" Rikon impeller fits my HF DC perfectly. The vanes of the impeller curved in the opposite direction, but i have increased airflow, and decreased noise. The Rikon impeller is about $60 + $20 shipping.

There are two performance specs for DC's that are equally important, i.e. CFM and SP.  If you reverse the vanes on the impeller, you will affect one or both of those characteristics, and the laws of physics will apply.  That means if you increase one, you will most likely decrease the other.  Now, having said that, it is not out of the question that the original impeller is so poorly designed and engineered that another impeller might improve both CFM and SP.  But, I wouldn't be betting much on that outcome.

So, if you really have increased your airflow there is a good chance you have lost some static pressure, and without the use of test instruments you can't really be certain how you've changed either one.  I've done enough testing on my own system now to know I can easily be fooled without the instruments.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 09:21:23 AM by retired2 »

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 12:21:01 PM »
to add to all the drama...

i just added a wynn filter to my HF DC today and measured before and after amperage numbers. the readings fluttered from 8.9 to 9.3 with the stock felt filter atop, but held much more steady with the new filter at 9.7 to 9.75.

here comes the drama part. i bought my DC for 130 out the door, then add my separator(free) and my filter for 128 shipped, i'm at 258 and still have money left over for a new impeller and propper ducting.

but...if i had to do it over again, i would've probably been more patient and search craigslist longer, there are crazy deals out there for used grizzleys etc...i've seen 2hp 220v units with an upgraded filter and tons of misc ducting for as little as 250 bucks. now thats the way to go, i needed a DC asap however when i bought mine to save my lungs on an mdx(TOXIC) and my crappy HFDC did the trick, and now it definately performs better than new.

i also bought a bellmouth and am going to order a new impeller today. i also am going to take before and after amp readings of each mod since this is the easiest way to check for airflow increase(to get a rough idea of course). stay tuned

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 12:24:05 PM »
btw...polarys, if you have a part number for that impeller, im sure that would be beneficial towards all of us who have have the HF units. thanks

retrowood

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 06:39:14 PM »
I agree, if the Rikon impeller unit fits on the HF Motor shaft and the HF housing allows enough clearance, if might be worth your money and efforts to install. Can you tweak things a bit by moving the impeller within the housing? Perhaps installing some spacers will give you optimal placement results. Along with your Thein unit, I would suggest adding a pleated filter to give your best bang for the buck. It's pricey considering what you've paid for the DC although will give you higher CFM w/ increased filter material and you will have better protection if you spec the filter correctly.  What size hose are you using? Might be worth your time to move up to a 5" line, would give higher CFM results if the retrofitted Rikon impeller gives you the ability to push more air. Sounds interesting, good luck.

Keeps us posted.
Retrowood


 
btw...polarys, if you have a part number for that impeller, im sure that would be beneficial towards all of us who have have the HF units. thanks

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 01:20:12 PM »
update...the grizzly impeller is on its way, shipped out yesterday, should be here wednesday of next week. i'll be updating both the impeller and the separator at that time. i'll let you all know how it turns out.

btw, i called rikon to see about their impeller on the 2hp units, its only 11" in diameter so not much better than my 10 1/2" which is why i went with the grizzley. maybe thats why rikon's cfm is rated at 1250 as opposed to grizzly's 1550. hmm...

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2011, 05:59:24 PM »
well its time for another update...and this time it is not all good. you can see in the pic how massive the Grizzly impeller is, and it is made very well. You can also see that unfortunately the vanes are the wrong direction.



the biggest differance between these two impellers besides the obvious size differance is the weight. the Grizzley is probably around 3 times the weight of the harbor freight unit. so now to the bad news, the motor is just not up to the job of the extra weight and size of the impeller. It was drawing over 60 amps on startup with a max of 68! it would run for 5 seconds and start to accelerate but i couldnt keep it on long enough to see if the amperage would level out at an acceptable and stable range. this is running on a 20amp dedicated cicruit in my shop with nothing else running. i didnt feel comfortable switching to a 30amp circuit just to see if the amps would come down, i do have electrical experience being a contractor, and also called up my subcontractor electrician for advice and he advised against this idea as well. so now i am kinda stuck with this impeller as i just installed my weenie 10" impeller.

onto some good news though, i installed a bellmouth as did member "retired02" and i did notice a differance in performance. the amps also tell the same story, i was pulling 9.75 and am now pulling 12.1-12.5! quite an increase if you ask me.

i also altered the inlet of my unit, this might be part of the increase as well. i removed the metal inlet and switched to a plywood inlet on the squirel cage itself. nut the differance is i was able to round over the the edge with roundover bit, it basically made a bellmouth. pretty imteresting results if you ask me.

i'd be interested to see what a "stock" hf unit pulls in the amperage department with the stock 5" inlet and outlets since mine was upgraded to 6" up until the separator downsized to 5" just in case i ever needed to upgrade in the future.

thoughts/criticisms welcome.......

btw i have a grizzly impeller for sale at a discount if anyone can do something with it, hehe

lifesaver2000

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2011, 05:01:59 PM »
Just looking at the picture of the impellers.  Quite a difference in size there.  I am curious which Grizzly unit (model number) that impeller is for?

lifesaver2000

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2011, 05:21:40 PM »
Never mind, I found where you had listed the part number, and a google search brought up multiple Grizzly models that impeller is used on.

One thing I noticed is that it is used on the G1028Z2.  Since that is listed as a 1-1/2 HP unit, it is interesting that your 2HP unit won't spin that impeller.

Greg McCallister

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 04:05:26 PM »
I kind of scanned through this post - it looks like the impeller is is made for a reversed rotation to the HF impeller. I seems it would not work anyways even if you were to reverse the rotation.

ssotangkur

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 03:56:50 AM »
I'm interested in replacing my HF impeller also.
It also seems weird to me why Grizzly's 1.5 HP DC using the same impeller would not have the same problem. Were you testing this in open air?

Grizzly has an aluminum version of this impeller now Part# P1028Z2010V2 - IMPELLER 12-3/4" ALUMINUM V2.09.11
I wonder if the aluminum version is lighter, thereby reducing the startup current.

Did you have to make any modifications to make the impeller fit on the motor shaft or into the blower housing?

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2013, 09:00:11 AM »
It was a bit of a pain to get the impeller to fit, especially because it didn't work afterward... I had to enlarge the the diameter of the hole for the shaft slightly using a drill press. I also had to open up the inlet to the blower housing and make it larger. It's obvious it wasn't meant to house such a large impeller once you open it up. Now I have a cool piece of wall art in my shop, I wonder if I can then it into a clock?...hmm

mickeyh

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2013, 11:14:12 AM »
Scanning through this post I'm wondering why while everyone is trying to save money but no one is considering the life span of the motor.  Replacing the impeller to a larger, heavier one will make the motor works harder, which will shorten its life span.  Not to mention possibility of decrease in performance or trip the circuit if the impeller is much heavier than the original.  Imagine using a motorcycle motor to run a car.  I'm exaggerating but the idea is the same.

DarthVader

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2013, 11:35:53 AM »
I didn't realize how much heavier the impeller was when I purchased the grizzly unit. Looking back I should've
Removed the HF impeller to get a weight and compare. The detailed info on the HF units is slim at best so I took a gamble. Hind sight is like that unfortunately. Now that the info is available, I can't imagine myself doing this again. I just look for deals on CL for a beefier unit. My new .02

ssotangkur

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2013, 05:13:00 PM »
Hi mickeyh,
Considering the price of the HF DC ($139 w/ coupon) I'm not too concerned w/ the longevity of the motor (I even have a spare 220v 2HP motor).
Theoretically, the HF's claim of a 2HP motor would mean that its capable of running at 20amps continuous duty so as long as it can get past its initial start up current, it "should" be okay.
To use a similar analogy, its like changing the gearing on your car to make it taller. It takes longer to get up to speed, but if you have the horsepower you can reach a higher top speed.

Someone mentioned that they used a Rikon impeller, but never gave the part number. Does anyone know how that conversion went?


JFurjanic

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Re: New Impeller for HF DC?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 05:09:02 AM »
Hello, I have a HF DC with the Rikon 12" impeller installed. If you contact Rikon service you can order it, the model of their DC is the 60-200 and the part reference is #22.  This easily slipped right onto the motor shaft. I haven't been able to actually take any measurements on increase of amps, cfm etc at this time. I am working on getting the instruments to do so.
Just from the feel of the air movement and also noise level I would suspect that it is working better with the larger impeller.
Hope this is helpful.
Thanks,

John