J. Phil Thien's Projects

Hello everyone.

I was recently alerted, via E-Mail, to a patent application:

http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20170266596&IDKey=05943D35F854&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fappft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D41%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526co1%3DAND%2526d%3DPG01%2526s1%3Dhuntley.IN.%2526OS%3DIN%2Fhuntley%2526RS%3DIN%2Fhuntley

This would be the Dustopper separator, available at Home Depot.

The unit, IMHO, is nothing more than a collection of the ideas expressed at this website/forum.

The man selling that product was in contact with me by E-Mail, writing this (8/5/2016):

QuoteLike many others out there, I am grateful for the initial work you did with your "baffle". That said, the next few sentences could have you cursing me, or perhaps partnering with me. It just depends on how you think, I suppose.

I made a Thein separator, including some of the changes that have appeared on other designs posted on the web. It worked reasonably well, but my attempts did not separate fines as well as I had hoped for. Next step was to buy the Oneida, which is a terrific separator, albeit a pain in the butt work with. So, armed with some experience, and some newly acquired knowledge on how cyclones work, I set about to make my own. My design gets is inspiration from yours, but I've added a couple subtle changes, and some not-so-subtle improvements in the shape of the chamber, which is significantly different. Basically, I wanted good fines separation; the ability to swallow an occasional large piece of debris;  good throughput; and for it to be difficult to others to make in case I set about the process of commercializing my design. This is what l I came up with:

https://vimeo.com/163336371

As you can see, it's performs incredibly well. So well, in fact, that I spent two months going back and forth with Oneida before they finally issued a rejection. I think they are selling well enough Dust Deputies that they don't feel all that threatened by my design. Then I went to Home Depot (still in play), who referred me to Emerson Electric, makers of Ridgid Tools. Emerson loves it, but doesn't believe there are enough buyers out there to justify adding a separator to their line. (maybe they'll copy and introduce anyways...like big companies have occasionally have done.) So, after 6 weeks of talking with Emerson, they too issues a rejection.

This morning the thought occurred to me that it may be in our mutual interest to talk. I would like to know more about why you did not prosecute your patent application. Was it prior art, cost, lack of an interested buyer, something different? You seem like a bright and fair guy, and I am hopeful we can talk openly about your experience, lessons learned, etc. My goal is still to commercialize this product. Since you were part of the initial inspiration, I am open to sharing some of the rewards should we be successful in that endeavor. This thought is very fresh in my mind, so I do not have particulars yet. I thought we would talk first to see how we match in terms of ethics, integrity, desired outcomes, and more, in hopes of finding a fit. (not having one!)

I used to live in Okauchee (on Okauchee Lake), about 30 miles west of Milwaukee. for 18 months, I worked at GE Medical Systems' headquarters as a marketing manager for their Nuclear Imaging Product Line.

So...are you interested in having a conversation?

I'd like for you guys to consider writing the United States Patent Office, and telling them to reject this patent application based on work prior work published here.  Any specifics in terms of his claims and specific threads will help the patent examiner reject the application.

Edit:  You CAN NOT E-Mail the patent office, apparently they don't accept protests sent via E-Mail.

Here is information that can be used to file a protest:

https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s1901.html#d0e193937

I posted this in another thread but figured I'd create a new thread.

I'm including a pic of my "inline separator."  It has about the lowest pressure drop you can achieve.

One thing you need to know...  When a vacuum is pulled on a pipe, the air moves fastest through the center, slower at the edges.  This means the pipe itself is acting like a separator.  I can watch this with my clear pipe network, I see the bulk of the debris swirling around the outside and trying to stay out of the way of the faster moving air in the center of the pipe.

So in the pic I'm attaching, the gadget's left side is attached to my (or your) ductwork.  On the right side is a smaller pipe to which suction is attached (I use a shop vac but this can be scaled-up to larger blowers).  This extends through a sealed cap and past the end of the wye.  This smaller suction pipe is the vortex finder.

So now what happens is that the suction forces the dust in the pipe into a spin.  Once it arrives at the vortex finder, it can't reverse direction fast enough and passes the finder and continues into the Wye, where it is directed down into a discharge.

One downside to this method is that you have to size it so the largest expected bit of debris can fit between the inside, and outside pipes.  That is true of systems using my baffle, too.

One other downside would be lower separation rates.  I think.  I'm not positive on that.  There are quite a few variables like, how far should the finder tube extend past the wye's 45-degree leg?  And on units designed to accommodate larger DC units, can offsetting the finder improve separation?

It works way better than anyone to which I've demonstrated it would have thought, though.

And there are numerous advantages.  Takes up almost no additional space you haven't already lost.  And limited ceiling height isn't a problem.  Very little pressure drop, too.  Not too difficult to build even in larger sizes.

I need more time to experiment with it.

Please post pics you've found online, in magazines/books, etc., of dust pans for contractor saws.  Especially if you can provide dates (like copyright dates) of books/magazines, etc.

https://mfix.netl.doe.gov/workshop/CMFS-2014/multiPhase_topHat.pdf

Just a note that over the next couple of weeks, I plan to make some changes to the website.  Not the forum, but the static site.  I'm going to try changing it over to something like WordPress.  So if some parts of it seem to have vanished, they will return, I'm just working on things.  So just "keep calm and carry on."

I've received PM's and E-Mail on occasion asking whether it is okay to post links to other forums here.

It is not only fine, it is encouraged.  It would help if it is relevant, but tangentially relevant is fine, too.

Even if you documented a build elsewhere and don't want to bother doing so here, or if you saw a build elsewhere that wasn't documented here, post away.  You can even reply to this post with a link.

About a year ago, I glued-up some walnut tops a little over 24" square (3/4" thick).  They were flat when I was done.

I sat them aside, they've had good ventilation on both sides, but they've cupped about 3/16 along the width.

I can pull the cups out of them when I attach them to the tables, but doing so will probably require me using the figure-eight fasteners like these:

http://www.rockler.com/desk-top-fasteners

Instead of the type to which I'm accustomed:

http://www.rockler.com/table-top-fasteners

I'm afraid the 2nd ones may cause the kerf into which they're gripping to crack.

I've never used the figure-eight fasteners, is there a good trick for counter-sinking these things?

I've clamped on of the tops flat for now.  I suspect when I unclamp it tomorrow it will spring back with enthusiasm.  However, if the cup seems more pliable I might try the 2nd type of fastener.

Any experiences with cupped tops?

1/30/18:  I've changed spam software and settings to hopefully prevent the SPAM onslaught I was experiencing.

It will no longer be a requirement to introduce yourself and then be approved for posting.  You should be able to sign-up and post immediately.

Of course, feel free to continue introducing yourself if you like, it is always nice to hear what others are working on.


***** Original text:

This is the official "Introduce yourself" or "Accounts w/o posts will be deleted after 14 days" thread.

One thing a great many people that join online forums may not be aware of is the large # of spammers that attempt to create accounts solely for the purposes of posting their fake Cialis ads.

The battle requires constant adaptation of methods to prevent their carp from being visible to all users.  And because the spammers use bots to perform their chore, a huge number of accounts can be created in a short period of time (think 100's in a 24-hour period, even WITH anti-spam controls in place).

I delete these accounts during regular housekeeping.  Basically, I delete any account with zero (0) posts that has not be active in the previous (approx.) fourteen days.

So if you create an account with the plan of posting something, and then don't follow-through, don't be surprised if your account is gone in a couple of weeks.

If you want to create an account so the system can keep track of new posts, etc., and you only plan on visiting once a month or every other month, just create a simple post (you can do so in this thread) introducing yourself.  That way your account will be safe from my housekeeping.

Thanks!

LOL, I cannot imagine moving this domain could be any more of a PITA that it has been.  Still working on it.  I will post a little more when things have settled down.

I didn't realize when I switched everything over to jpthien.com that the hosting outfit limits me to 250-MB/day for addon domains.  The main account (cgallery.com) has unlimited xfer rates.  The addon domains are limited to 250-MB/day.  Webmasters refers to the limit in correspondence, but I didn't see (and don't see) any obvious mention of this on their web site.

In any event, I'm fixing it by moving attachments over to cgallery.com, and I'm going to switch hosting companies.

I'm thinking of using 1and1.com or bluehost for hosting.  I know bluehost allows unlimited addon domain xfers, and that the addons work as I need them to.  I need to call 1and1.com this morning and make sure they work the same as bluehost.  I'd sort of like to use bluehost as I get a free copy of Adobe Dreamweaver (albeit one version old).

So again, sorry for the problems.  I will get them cleared-up in the next few days.

I recently changed the site from a folder on my business site, to its own domain (jpthien.com).

REASON:  While I felt having it in a folder on my business site provided decent compartmentalization (that has to be one of the longest words in the English language), the search engine crawlers kept mixing the content of the two together.  So people searching for my business would see weird dust separators.  And people looking for dust separators were finding some weird computer stuff.

So I decided to just separate it into a new domain.

I think the forum is okay.  The mailing list needs addressing.

If you find other things that don't work, please post them here in this thread so I can clean it up.

Thank you for understanding.

Got some nice coverage on the woodgears.ca site (IMO).

It may have been more helpful had he not been testing the unit with his own shop vac, or at least made some comparisons between his shop vac and commercial shop vac first.  I don't know how his home-made vac compares to a large unit from Ridgid, Sears, or real Shop-Vac.  There is one point where he covers the inlet of his separator with his hand and has little problem removing his hand.  This is in stark contrast to me sticking my hand over the inlet of my unit.

I know I use my unit for my planer and wide boards and it works pretty well.  And I have my 2.5" pipe network and a bunch of blast gates in the mix, too.  Not perfect, but perfectly usable.

And I'm a bit surprised he didn't extend his outlet tube further, seeing as he extended the depth of his separator.

But still I think the video showing that the separator was able to remove more flour from the airstream than the 3M filter he was using was pretty impressive.

And I was overall very happy with his impartial testing.

I think it would be interesting for him to compare an off the shelf plastic cyclone with one of my units.  But I'd prefer that he use a shop vac like most everyone else would.

I'm not saying my unit is going to beat a conventional cyclone.  I just think it would be interesting to see some impartial testing.

Oh, here is the site, for anyone interested:

http://www.woodgears.ca

We were getting bombarded by the spammers this evening.  I've made some adjustments to the permissions so new members need their first post approved.  Hopefully, this puts a stop to the nonsense.  My concern is that I've made it impossible to post for existing users.  I've done some testing, don't think this is the case.  But if it is, please PM me here.  If you cannot PM (oh gosh!) then send me an E-Mail at phil (at) cgallery (dot) com.

Thanks!
Phil

Sorry for the spam nonsense.  I just changed the settings so new members first posts have to be approved before they will appear.

I upgraded to SMF 2.0 today.  It seems to be working okay, but I need to do a little more testing.

If you have problems or notice an issue, please let me know.

Thanks,
Phil

Howard in Toronto, your post got nailed due to my trying to clean-up spam postings.  My mistake.

Can you repost?

Pictures of collar detail.

I just got done speaking with Dick Wynn.

He has updated his web page with a "C" series of filters.

http://www.wynnenv.com/cartridge_filters.htm

Please note that these "C" units feature the nanofiber media.

The first two pics on the page I linked show a HF-style ring with a funnel, and a PSI ring with an auger.  These pics represent the vast majority of the rings out there today (funnels and augers).

Now, in the past, people with a funnel ring that have gone with a 35A filter from Wynn have used the supplied turnbuckles to attach the filter to the ring.  You do this from underneath the ring, with the plastic bag removed.

This is problematic, though, when using one of my baffles.  If you needed to remove the filter, you'd have to remove the the baffle first.

Wynn's response is the "C", which the user attaches to a shop-made donut (using the bolt holes supplied on the filter).  This allows you to install/remove the filter without having to go through the baffle.

I know some 35A users have used bungee cords from the top of the filter to the support legs on the side of the ring.  Mr. Wynn says that is okay, the filters and their cages are pretty sturdy and as long as you don't apply too much force, you shouldn't have any problems with deforming the filter.

The C looks pretty neat.  The extra bolt holes on the bottom flange provide additional flexibility in terms of mounting.  Just thought I'd pass that along.

One more note (a correction from the manufacturer):  These aren't 35C filters, they are just "C" filters.  They have a 35A series, a 9L series, and now a C series.

Many people have asked me to offer a pre-made, easy-to-install baffle for their dust collector.

The question is how much the inner diameter of the DC rings varies.

If you have some time, please remove the lower bag from your DC, and measure the I.D. (Inner Diameter) of the ring at the bottom.  Please take 2-3 measurements and average them in case your ring is slightly out of round.

If you post the model of your unit, and the measurement, I'll see if I can just have a bunch of them laser-cut for cheap.

Thanks to everyone that reported the spam, sorry it took so long.  I've been on my deathbed all last night and today with some sort of bug.

It may be a while before I feel up to responding to anything else here.