J. Phil Thien's Projects

General Category => Thien Cyclone Separator Lid Discussion => Topic started by: retired2 on March 12, 2015, 10:29:26 AM

Title: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 12, 2015, 10:29:26 AM
There are a number of remote start/stop systems available for dust collectors.  Each has its own advantages and disadvantages.  The one I chose is Penn State Industries' Long Ranger Multigate system.  One of the disadvantages of this system is the frequent cycling of the blower as you move from tool to tool.  As a result, I have had four Long Ranger units fail in as many years - the relay seizes and then the blower won't shut off.  The Long Ranger is just not up to the task of cycling a 1-1/2 HP motor frequently.

Despite the problems, I like this system and do not want to change to another, especially since my blast gates are already wired with switches for this system.  So, I decided to build my own improved version of the Long Ranger using heavier components.   

Before I share the details of what I've done, I need to make this disclaimer.  I am not an electrical engineer, controls engineer, or electrician.  If you choose to duplicate any part of this design, you do so at your own risk.  If anyone reading this thread is qualified to critique this design and fabrication, I welcome your comments.

Just for reference, here is a photo of the old, actually brand new, warranty replacement Long Ranger Multigate system. Inside the metal enclosure are all Asian solid state components.  I'm thinking about using this one to control a 7W night light, it should be able to handle that service!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/le52ju0w19o8i76/DC%20Remote-05.jpg?raw=1)




Below is a photo of the unit I built.  All components are housed in the hinged-door NEMA enclosure approximately 7"x7"x5"deep.  The first improvement can be seen on the door.  It is a simple spring-wound timer that controls all power to the system.  It is time-selectable up to twelve hours, and its primary purpose is to provide peace of mind by ensuring that the system will be without power when I am not in the shop.  Although it has never happened, the micro-switches on the blast gates could vibrate loose.  If one were to move just a small amount, the blower would start and continue to run.  That would not be a good thing if I were away on vacation!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kxeetw8xdk1td65/DC%20Remote-02.jpg?raw=1)



The next photo is the enclosure with the door open.  Inside is a 120V contactor with a 120V coil, and a small white device which is an adjustable stop-delay relay.  This device is the second improvement in my design.  It allows me to set a delay interval in the shut-off.  This provides time for me to move from one machine to the next without cycling the blower.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1mqrdvzay0ztwq8/DC%20Remote-03.jpg?raw=1)



Here is a close-up of the inside of the box showing the wiring details, and a better view of the delay relay.  On the relay you can see the pot for adjusting the delay interval and a bank of dip-switches that control the numerous functions of the relay.  This relay also simplifies the triggering of the unit because there is no transformer required to provide a low voltage circuit for the blast gate switches.  The relay is triggered by the "dry" closing of any of the micro-switches; no voltage is required.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/r1g946jc7cqku8k/DC%20Remote-04.jpg?raw=1)



And finally, here is a copy of my wiring diagram.  As I said, I am not an electrical or controls engineer, so the symbology may not follow standard convention, but it makes sense to me.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6vgzewlpap8v2i/DC%20Remote-06.jpg?raw=1)



So far, the unit is performing exactly as planned.  Only time will tell about the long term durability.  The total cost for the various components is about $150, cheaper than buying a Long Ranger every couple years, or replacing a blower motor prematurely due to repeated cycling.  If anyone is interested, I will provide a parts list, prices, and sources.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: tvman44 on March 12, 2015, 11:14:02 AM
I don't see any pictures?
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: tvman44 on March 12, 2015, 11:36:24 AM
Possible the campground we are in is filtering them out????  Will try again when we get back home next week.  I just looked at a couple of older post & they don't have any pictures either.  So probably the network here in the state park.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 16, 2015, 10:05:34 AM
I'm curious about the turn off delay.
How will that help clear the line once you close the blast gate without airflow?

I used a 240v contacted with a 24v coil & used micro switches on 2 of my blast gates & magnetic switches on my other 3. (I like the magnetic switches better as there's less chance of them working loose.) I also added 3 switches in my shop 2 3-way & 1-4-way wired in with the blast gates to keep the unit moving between machines or for floor sweeps.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 16, 2015, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: JonWho? on March 16, 2015, 10:05:34 AM
I'm curious about the turn off delay.
How will that help clear the line once you close the blast gate without airflow?

I used a 240v contacted with a 24v coil & used micro switches on 2 of my blast gates & magnetic switches on my other 3. (I like the magnetic switches better as there's less chance of them working loose.) I also added 3 switches in my shop 2 3-way & 1-4-way wired in with the blast gates to keep the unit moving between machines or for floor sweeps.

Good catch "JonWho"!  Unless I have leaks the airflow should stop with the closing of the gate.  However, this could still be a benefit for someone who does not have their switches mounted on their blast gates.  I like them there, but some people do not, maybe the location is inconvenient.  In any case, I have removed that statement from the original post, to avoid any further confusion.

I hope people realize they do not need blastgates with microswitches to use this device.  They can put toggle switches to control their DC anywhere they like with just bell wire.

I've had this device in service now for about a week, and the delay relay is working out very well for me.  It is currently set to about 10 seconds.  If I am not at another machine doing something else in that period of time, then I most likely intended to turn the blower off anyway.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: phil (admin) on March 17, 2015, 06:54:59 AM
Very nice work, retired2!
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 17, 2015, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: phil (admin) on March 17, 2015, 06:54:59 AM
Very nice work, retired2!

Thanks Phil.  My only regret is that I did not build this in the first place, it would have saved me some money.  In fact, even this unit could be built for less than $100 if the timer and stop delay relay were eliminated.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 17, 2015, 10:43:14 AM
Quote from: retired2 on March 16, 2015, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: JonWho? on March 16, 2015, 10:05:34 AM
I'm curious about the turn off delay.
How will that help clear the line once you close the blast gate without airflow?

I used a 240v contacted with a 24v coil & used micro switches on 2 of my blast gates & magnetic switches on my other 3. (I like the magnetic switches better as there's less chance of them working loose.) I also added 3 switches in my shop 2 3-way & 1-4-way wired in with the blast gates to keep the unit moving between machines or for floor sweeps.

Good catch "JonWho"!  Unless I have leaks the airflow should stop with the closing of the gate.  However, this could still be a benefit for someone who does not have their switches mounted on their blast gates.  I like them there, but some people do not, maybe the location is inconvenient. 

I hope people realize they do not need blastgates with microswitches to use this device.  They can put toggle switches to control their DC anywhere they like with just bell wire.

I've had this device in service now for about a week, and the delay relay is working out very well for me.  It is currently set to about 10 seconds.  If I am not at another machine doing something else in that period of time, then I most likely intended to turn the blower off anyway.

Still a great setup Retired2. Now you've got my wheels turning.
Gimme a bit & I'll so I if I can figure a way to use the delay to control actuators closing blast gates.
Would be cheap & easy with a 12VDC setup. But I've gotta figure integrating & controlling that with 120v.
A bit may be a few days to a week..
Pretty snowed under at work right now.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 17, 2015, 11:55:36 AM
Quote from: JonWho? on March 17, 2015, 10:43:14 AM
Quote from: retired2 on March 16, 2015, 03:08:17 PM
Quote from: JonWho? on March 16, 2015, 10:05:34 AM
I'm curious about the turn off delay.
How will that help clear the line once you close the blast gate without airflow?

I used a 240v contacted with a 24v coil & used micro switches on 2 of my blast gates & magnetic switches on my other 3. (I like the magnetic switches better as there's less chance of them working loose.) I also added 3 switches in my shop 2 3-way & 1-4-way wired in with the blast gates to keep the unit moving between machines or for floor sweeps.

Good catch "JonWho"!  Unless I have leaks the airflow should stop with the closing of the gate.  However, this could still be a benefit for someone who does not have their switches mounted on their blast gates.  I like them there, but some people do not, maybe the location is inconvenient. 

I hope people realize they do not need blastgates with microswitches to use this device.  They can put toggle switches to control their DC anywhere they like with just bell wire.

I've had this device in service now for about a week, and the delay relay is working out very well for me.  It is currently set to about 10 seconds.  If I am not at another machine doing something else in that period of time, then I most likely intended to turn the blower off anyway.

Still a great setup Retired2. Now you've got my wheels turning.
Gimme a bit & I'll so I if I can figure a way to use the delay to control actuators closing blast gates.
Would be cheap & easy with a 12VDC setup. But I've gotta figure integrating & controlling that with 120v.
A bit may be a few days to a week..
Pretty snowed under at work right now.

You might want to investigate the Macromatic timer relay functionality further, because it has a great deal of flexibility, including multiple voltages.  Here is a link to their website.  Look at the "Catalog Pages" and Instruction Sheet".  Also, under Technical Support, look at the KnowledgeBase - a lot of good info there.

http://www.macromatic.com/products/products.php?series=THR-381

I paid $49 for my Macromatic THR-3816U from Zoro - shipping was free.

Update:
JonWho, here's something that might help your brainstorming.  I don't know if you noticed the notation on my schematic that terminal #9 is not used and is hot when the system is off.  In fact, it is always in the opposite state of terminal #8 which turns the system on.  That might be beneficial for some added functionality or feature.  In fact, I have been trying to come up with some clever idea to take advantage of that unused terminal.  Maybe I could use it to activate a bottle opener - blower shuts off, bottle opens! ;D   
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: TX_Lenador on March 19, 2015, 09:22:40 PM
Retired2, Nice job and sounds like it will work for a long time. I have looked at adding a time off delay to the auto-start setup I am using to minimize the cycling of the motor when using tools like the CSMS and router. I do have an override switch I can use to keep the unit running as long as I remember to use it. As mentioned in another post I am working towards full auto design (start of the DC and opening of the appropriate blast gate with pneumatics) when a tool is started. I saw where you mentioned that it sounded complicated but I like to tinker with stuff so gives me a challenge between projects.

JonWho?, You might be able to use a current sensing relay with delay off to sense when the DC is running and then opening the blast gate. The trick will be to know which BG to open which you might be able to use the wiring associated with the microswitch to complete the circuit to the actuator for the BG. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 20, 2015, 09:17:09 AM
Quote from: TX_Lenador on March 19, 2015, 09:22:40 PM
Retired2, Nice job and sounds like it will work for a long time. I have looked at adding a time off delay to the auto-start setup I am using to minimize the cycling of the motor when using tools like the CSMS and router. I do have an override switch I can use to keep the unit running as long as I remember to use it. As mentioned in another post I am working towards full auto design (start of the DC and opening of the appropriate blast gate with pneumatics) when a tool is started. I saw where you mentioned that it sounded complicated but I like to tinker with stuff so gives me a challenge between projects.

JonWho?, You might be able to use a current sensing relay with delay off to sense when the DC is running and then opening the blast gate. The trick will be to know which BG to open which you might be able to use the wiring associated with the microswitch to complete the circuit to the actuator for the BG. Just a thought.

Look into current sensing switches for each machine. I'll be using something similar to this.

Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 20, 2015, 09:29:05 AM
My setup is only on my table saw, router tables, & band saw. So all the machines are close together. Simplifies piping & wiring everything.
First pic shows where my routers, table saw, & DC are.
2nd shows the band saw. 3rd & 4th is where I rough cut with a jigsaw or sand which I thought may be a useful idea for others. It sits on a trash can so anything I cut off drops in.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 20, 2015, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: JonWho? on March 20, 2015, 09:29:05 AM
My setup is only on my table saw, router tables, & band saw. So all the machines are close together. Simplifies piping & wiring everything.
First pic shows where my routers, table saw, & DC are.
2nd shows the band saw. 3rd & 4th is where I rough cut with a jigsaw or sand which I thought may be a useful idea for others. It sits on a trash can so anything I cut off drops in.

Looks like you could use Hawkeye's at each tool to sense current, and then wire the output to provide the "dry trigger" on terminals #4 and #5 of the Macromatic relay.  The Macromatic would then provide the 120 or 240 output at terminal #8 to a contactor which would start the blower and open the blast gate.  Oops, not quite that simple, you need to open just one blast gate and it has to be the correct one.   O.K.  so there is a little more design to be done here!   

I like the trash can dust collector, I may use that idea.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 22, 2015, 10:00:02 AM
Retired2, I figured some of you could use that. Before the Dc I had a piece of MDF with a big circle cut in it sitting on top of the trash can. Trash drops in the can & no more cutting into your good tables.
We call it Oscar.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: TX_Lenador on March 23, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Retired2, you are on the right track to use a current sensor on each circuit that runs a machine. The sensor will need to trip a DPST (DPDT) relay. One set of contacts will go to trigger the DC and the other set of contacts will trigger the mechanism for the blast gate. The set of contacts on each DPDT relay that triggers the DC are wired in parallel so it doesn't matter which machine is turned on it will trigger the DC. If you add the delay off then you get the DC running after the machine is off to clear the line or keep it from cycling off if starting another machine (or multiple cuts on CMS). Hope this makes sense. If I get time in the next few days I will try to draw up a schematic.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 24, 2015, 10:55:03 AM
Quote from: TX_Lenador on March 23, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Retired2, you are on the right track to use a current sensor on each circuit that runs a machine. The sensor will need to trip a DPST (DPDT) relay. One set of contacts will go to trigger the DC and the other set of contacts will trigger the mechanism for the blast gate. The set of contacts on each DPDT relay that triggers the DC are wired in parallel so it doesn't matter which machine is turned on it will trigger the DC. If you add the delay off then you get the DC running after the machine is off to clear the line or keep it from cycling off if starting another machine (or multiple cuts on CMS). Hope this makes sense. If I get time in the next few days I will try to draw up a schematic.

Actually, it is probably JonWho that you should be addressing, because he is the one who is planning to take my design several steps further to meet his needs.  At least for now, my needs are being met perfectly.

But yes, I think I understand what you are saying.  If I am correct, you are suggesting a contactor for each machine.  The Hawkeye current sensor would provide the low voltage power to the coil side of the contactor.  One pole of each contactor would be wired in parallel with the others to turn on the DC, but the second pole of each contactor would be wired only to the blast gate actuator of the respective current sensor. 

My contactor cost about $10-$12, so having to purchase one for each machine is not going to break the bank.  But there might be some voltage mismatches with all these devices and that might require adding a transformer somewhere.

If JonWho desires a stop-delay, then that design needs to be worked out.  There might be a cheaper solution than the Macromatic that I used, because not all of its functionality would be needed.  But it would probably work by just putting it in the DC circuit.  No trigger is needed if the NC #9 output terminal is used.  This terminal is always hot when there is power to the Macromatic.  No trigger needs to be present.  Hmmm... now that I think about it, the stop delay might be dependent on the trigger cycling power rather than just cycling the incoming power.  If that is the case, there is more design to be done, unless you have that part worked out too.

Probably the best way for us all to be sure what you are proposing is for you to post a schematic.   

Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 25, 2015, 09:27:59 PM
Looks like that's gonna have to wait. I went into my wood shop to move a shelf. Then OCD kicked in & I tore the place apart to remodel.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 26, 2015, 09:05:50 AM
Quote from: TX_Lenador on March 23, 2015, 08:36:25 PM
Retired2, you are on the right track to use a current sensor on each circuit that runs a machine. The sensor will need to trip a DPST (DPDT) relay. One set of contacts will go to trigger the DC and the other set of contacts will trigger the mechanism for the blast gate. The set of contacts on each DPDT relay that triggers the DC are wired in parallel so it doesn't matter which machine is turned on it will trigger the DC. If you add the delay off then you get the DC running after the machine is off to clear the line or keep it from cycling off if starting another machine (or multiple cuts on CMS). Hope this makes sense. If I get time in the next few days I will try to draw up a schematic.

On second thought, Feel free to draw something up at your leisure. It will just be here when I get around to it. Thank you for offering. You'll probably come up with something better than I would!
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: TX_Lenador on March 26, 2015, 10:14:41 PM
Here are two schematics. The first does not require a micro-switch on the blast gate to turn on the DC. The second uses the micro-switch system to start the DC. All are welcome to use at your own risk. If you have any questions please let me know.

Here are a few links to videos on the blast gate actuation. A quick search for automated blast gates will find a number of videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60PuJGupZOo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60PuJGupZOo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kRYGxGNrfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kRYGxGNrfk)
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on March 27, 2015, 07:12:12 AM
Really nice job on the schematics TX!  Obviously you have a lot more knowledge and experience with this stuff than me.  There is so much good information in your post, it would be a shame for it to get lost in a thread titled Long Ranger.  It might not be a bad idea to start a new thread with a title that would allow "searchers" to find it in the future.

For the number of hours I spend in my shop, I can't justify adding blast gate actuators, but it sure looks like it would be a really fun project.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: JonWho? on March 28, 2015, 08:27:33 AM
Awesome!
This may be the most helpful group on the Internet.

I know everyone has better things to do than answer questions online.
Or taking the time to draw schematics & include links. Great job drawing those TX!

I work with mobile electronics which is why I said it would be simple if I went 12v DC.
I'm a little out of my element with this.

The schematics TX posted makes it easy. Especially compared to what I was planning that consisted of building a 12vdc switching system, which would have me hunting down parts that may or may not exist!

Thank you both.

Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: slharman1 on December 20, 2016, 07:36:39 PM
Retired2,
I am very interested in the parts lists and source for your DC controller.
Please send me the info
Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on December 22, 2016, 10:24:39 AM
Steve,

Here's the list.  I think the hardest items for me to find were the spade connectors that allow you to land two wires on the same terminal.  If you build one exactly like mine, you will need two of those in the yellow size.  If I find where I bought them I'll let you know. 

For what it is worth, this Long Ranger replacement has been working like a champ, unlike the numerous Long Rangers that seem to last about 1 year.  I checked recently to see what they were selling for and it looks like the 150V version has been discontinued - I can understand why.


NBF 32014 NEMA Box   Approx. 7"x7"x5"     Mouser Electronics $23.65
NSI Industries Tork C412H Timer                 Amazon $23.59   
Packard Contactor C130B                            Amazon $11.95
Arlington Strain Relief LPCG50-1   1/2"         Amazon $5.48
Leviton 5361-E 20Amp Receptacle                Amazon $14.60
Macromatic THR-3816U Multi-function Relay  Zoro  $49.82
Wire and Connectors                                    Various $20

Total cost approx. $150
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: slharman1 on December 22, 2016, 05:46:16 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: El Duderino on July 28, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
Hate to resurface such an old thread, but I found this very useful but had a few questions.

Did you ever remember where you found the spade connectors?  I have never seen any like that.  Also, where did you get the screw down wire terminals?  That is a nice clean touch.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on August 01, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: El Duderino on July 28, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
Hate to resurface such an old thread, but I found this very useful but had a few questions.

Did you ever remember where you found the spade connectors?  I have never seen any like that.  Also, where did you get the screw down wire terminals?  That is a nice clean touch.

Thanks!

The screw down wire terminals were cannabilized from one of my "fried" Long Rangers, so I have no idea where you could find those.  The spade connectors might have come from Amazon.  I'll check my orders and let you know.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on August 01, 2017, 07:33:32 PM
Quote from: retired2 on August 01, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
Quote from: El Duderino on July 28, 2017, 11:49:06 AM
Hate to resurface such an old thread, but I found this very useful but had a few questions.

Did you ever remember where you found the spade connectors?  I have never seen any like that.  Also, where did you get the screw down wire terminals?  That is a nice clean touch.

Thanks!

The screw down wire terminals were cannabilized from one of my "fried" Long Rangers, so I have no idea where you could find those.  The spade connectors might have come from Amazon.  I'll check my orders and let you know.

Well, I didn't buy them from Amazon, so I have no clue where I found them in small quantities.  Do a search  on "piggyback spade connectors" and you will probably find them.  Or search "Thomas and Betts", a manufacturer.  Forget the big box stores, or even Radio Shack, they won't have them.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: Walter Sobchak on October 26, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Hi retired2,  I've been using the 110V version of the Long Ranger Multigate for more than 15 years now.  It is fantastic.  I have 12 blast gates hooked up to it and it definitely makes dust collection extremely convenient.  The only issue is that it regularly gets stuck in the "on-only" position.  When this happens, I bang the control box on the shop floor and then it works as good as new.  (Seriously.)  After performing this brutish reset dozens and dozens of times, my first unit finally bit the dust and for the past couple of years I've been using a second unit.  I got that one right around the time PSI discontinued this model but still had some inventory in stock.  Now, I am worried this one, too, is on it's way out.  Even if I could find a replacement, I'd like one that was heavier duty than the original PSI unit.

In short, I'd like to build your brilliant version of this.  I see the parts list above - thanks.  I'm not sure I need the timer, though.  (I, too, have always been worried that one of the blast gates would wiggle open, but this has never happened.  And, whenever I go out of town, I always turn off the main power to the dust collector.)  So, I'm wondering if you can give me tips for revising your design without the timer function.  Sorry, I know this should be obvious but I'm a novice at electronics.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on October 27, 2017, 05:50:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Sobchak on October 26, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Hi retired2,  I've been using the 110V version of the Long Ranger Multigate for more than 15 years now.  It is fantastic.  I have 12 blast gates hooked up to it and it definitely makes dust collection extremely convenient.  The only issue is that it regularly gets stuck in the "on-only" position.  When this happens, I bang the control box on the shop floor and then it works as good as new.  (Seriously.)  After performing this brutish reset dozens and dozens of times, my first unit finally bit the dust and for the past couple of years I've been using a second unit.  I got that one right around the time PSI discontinued this model but still had some inventory in stock.  Now, I am worried this one, too, is on it's way out.  Even if I could find a replacement, I'd like one that was heavier duty than the original PSI unit.

In short, I'd like to build your brilliant version of this.  I see the parts list above - thanks.  I'm not sure I need the timer, though.  (I, too, have always been worried that one of the blast gates would wiggle open, but this has never happened.  And, whenever I go out of town, I always turn off the main power to the dust collector.)  So, I'm wondering if you can give me tips for revising your design without the timer function.  Sorry, I know this should be obvious but I'm a novice at electronics.  Thanks.

Unfortunately Dropbox has done something again so all my links are broken and you probably cannot see the wiring schematic included in this thread. 

If you by chance printed it out, it is a simple task to eliminate the timer.  Simply land the black wire from the SJ cord on terminal 2 of the Delay Relay, and land the white wire from the SJ cord on terminal 3 of the Relay.  The wire nut splice is no longer needed because the ground wire is part of the timer which no longer exists. 


Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: Walter Sobchak on October 31, 2017, 01:41:38 PM
Here is my version of retired2's ingenious box with only a few minor modifications.  This was an enjoyable build and best of all, it works like a charm.  Note: Even though I used blue insulated spade terminals, the wires (other than the input to the dry switch) are all 12 gauge - solid to the outlet and stranded elsewhere.  Please reply with any observations or critiques.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on October 31, 2017, 06:20:18 PM
Quote from: Walter Sobchak on October 31, 2017, 01:41:38 PM
Here is my version of retired2's ingenious box with only a few minor modifications.  This was an enjoyable build and best of all, it works like a charm.  Note: Even though I used blue insulated spade terminals, the wires (other than the input to the dry switch) are all 12 gauge - solid to the outlet and stranded elsewhere.  Please reply with any observations or critiques.  Thanks.

Nice job Walter.  It looks remarkably familiar!

I assure you it will outlast 10 Long Rangers!
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: militarybrat on December 05, 2017, 11:11:30 AM
Well guys I am a master electrician nice work retired 2. I do mine old school I use a magnetic motor starter with 120 volt coil. Control wiring all machines to their start button. Turn machine on dust collector comes on off is off. My machines are all single phase either 120 or 220. I built lots of control panels and fixed them what i found is to keep it simple stupid. Simple motor starter with simple wiring works best over the long haul by eliminating any electronics and maintenence is  minimal. Don't forget to add single pole switch for turning dust collector on without other machines starting.

There is single phase 120/ 220 that are commonly called A and B phase (even# breakers and odd # breakers) all A phase will NOT short to other A phase breakers same with B phase.

3 phase is A B C same rules apply.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: militarybrat on December 05, 2017, 02:16:04 PM
Thanks retired 2 ya got my brain working. Gonna draw up some control wiring for shop dust collector. Gonna use electric solinoid to open blast gates one for each gate (default closed). Turn machine on blast gate opens DC starts life is good all easy analog controls. Thinking 24 volt ac for coils in relays that way no voltage wire like cat 5 can be run.120volt to 24 volt ac transformer is a door bell transformer. A single 120 v circuit for selonoids controlled by relays Square D 6 pin ice cube relays. Nice task for me right now.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on December 05, 2017, 04:02:03 PM
Thanks for the compliment, "militarybrat".  I don't know if you noticed reply 18 from TX-Lenador.  There is a PDF file at the bottom of that post that contains his schematic for turning on the separator and also opening the blast gate.  I'm not sure if he ever built it or not, so it might not be tested.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: Ex-Tex on February 17, 2018, 07:14:02 PM
Just a reminder: Anyone can purchase the same model of remote control that you might be using.
Don't want your system to be turned on while you are not in the shop?
Simply power the remote receiver from your overhead light circuit. Then the system can only be turned on while you are present and have your light on.
I am using a remote purchased from the local ACE hardware store. It, in turn controls an external 3 pole relay that is heavy enough to handle the 5 Hp Neeson motor on my ClearVue cyclone with problems at all.
Both the relay and the remote receiver are mounted inside the power panel with all of the circuit breakers.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on February 18, 2018, 12:07:43 AM
Quote from: retired5 on February 17, 2018, 07:14:02 PM
Just a reminder: Anyone can purchase the same model of remote control that you might be using.
Don't want your system to be turned on while you are not in the shop?
Simply power the remote receiver from your overhead light circuit. Then the system can only be turned on while you are present and have your light on.
I am using a remote purchased from the local ACE hardware store. It, in turn controls an external 3 pole relay that is heavy enough to handle the 5 Hp Neeson motor on my ClearVue cyclone with problems at all.
Both the relay and the remote receiver are mounted inside the power panel with all of the circuit breakers.

i thought about a wireless remote controlled system, but decided I didn't want one.  Remotes get misplaced, it's never where you want it, and it's a lump in your pocket that I don't like when I am working.  If you don't put it in your pocket then you need a place to lay it near each machine so you can grab it again to turn the tool off.  And now you've given me another reason not to want a wireless remote that I hadn't thought of. 

So, I'm very happy with my bell-wired micro switch system, it's cheap and trouble free.  By the way, I don't think any of the discussions in this thread are about a wireless remote start system.  They are all remote start, but with wired controls.

Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: Chuckl on April 07, 2019, 05:39:28 PM
I ran across this post and while it is showing its age, it is one of the best I've seen. I have built the remote starter as per your specs but one thing is never explained: the wiring of the micro switches. What gauge wire do you use to connect the micro switches to the remote starter? How are they connected? I believe I saw somewhere that they are connected in parallel, if so, does that mean the pair of wires from each switch are connected to the same terminals at the remote switch with all the other switches?

Thanks for any assistance. Again, great system.

Chuckl
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: retired2 on April 07, 2019, 09:38:31 PM
Quote from: Chuckl on April 07, 2019, 05:39:28 PM
I ran across this post and while it is showing its age, it is one of the best I've seen. I have built the remote starter as per your specs but one thing is never explained: the wiring of the micro switches. What gauge wire do you use to connect the micro switches to the remote starter? How are they connected? I believe I saw somewhere that they are connected in parallel, if so, does that mean the pair of wires from each switch are connected to the same terminals at the remote switch with all the other switches?

Thanks for any assistance. Again, great system.

Chuckl

I think I used 24 gauge wire, not sure where I got it.  I suspect you could use any gauge because no voltage is passed through it from the relay. The micro switches are wired in parallel.  I only have two pairs of wire returning to my remote because I have two mains in my dust collection system.  Each main has several drops with micro switches on each blast gate.  The switches on each main are wired in parallel and daisy-chained one after another.  I just tape the wire to my ductwork with duct tape.
Title: Re: Long Ranger Remote Starter Replacement and Upgrade
Post by: Chuckl on April 08, 2019, 07:57:54 AM
Thanks. That was what I suspected (the wire gauge). Thanks for the help.